Honda leaving F1.

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Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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please, no.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Edax
Edax
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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Big Tea wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:51 am
Edax wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:05 am
Here’s a thought. Mercedes has been rumored to sell their F1 team.

I doubt that deal would include engine dev. That is too close to Merc core technology. Not having a team affiliated to their name would mean they can be less picky about who they supply to.

Mercedes now supplies to 3 teams, 4 next year. 5 and 6 have just become available.

The step to a semi-spec series based around a single engine has suddenly become very small.
I just had an image of steam blowing the windows out at Ferrari HQ when they read that :twisted:
There is an alternative. All teams moving to a Ferrari engine.

As I see it this situation is not sustainable. Honda has pulled out, and frankly I am waiting for the same announcement from Renault.

Then we’re down to two. That is Michelin vs Bridgestone again an we know how that ends.

Besides I think Aston Martin and McLaren show that car manufacturers rather have their name on a winning frame than on a losing engine.

the EDGE
the EDGE
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Location: Bedfordshire ENGLAND

Re: Honda leaving F1.

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Edax wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:05 am
Here’s a thought. Mercedes has been rumored to sell their F1 team.

I doubt that deal would include engine dev. That is too close to Merc core technology. Not having a team affiliated to their name would mean they can be less picky about who they supply to.

Mercedes now supplies to 3 teams, 4 next year. 5 and 6 have just become available.

The step to a semi-spec series based around a single engine has suddenly become very small.
Then why use the current hybrid tech?

Why not move back cheap & reliable V8s. There’s plenty of billionaires wanting to play the real live version of F1 these days

If the costs can be controlled with the new budget cap & 2022 rules bro g card closer in performance we could have 30 cars on the grid in a few years time

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Big Tea
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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Edax wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:36 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:51 am
Edax wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:05 am
Here’s a thought. Mercedes has been rumored to sell their F1 team.

I doubt that deal would include engine dev. That is too close to Merc core technology. Not having a team affiliated to their name would mean they can be less picky about who they supply to.

Mercedes now supplies to 3 teams, 4 next year. 5 and 6 have just become available.

The step to a semi-spec series based around a single engine has suddenly become very small.
I just had an image of steam blowing the windows out at Ferrari HQ when they read that :twisted:
There is an alternative. All teams moving to a Ferrari engine.

As I see it this situation is not sustainable. Honda has pulled out, and frankly I am waiting for the same announcement from Renault.

Then we’re down to two. That is Michelin vs Bridgestone again an we know how that ends.

Besides I think Aston Martin and McLaren show that car manufacturers rather have their name on a winning frame than on a losing engine.
It would not be so bad if there were options for each team to 'mod' things. Use their own ECU or recovery/deployment etc, but the days of fitting their own injection system exhaust a and 'gubbins' are long gone, so not really much they can do

I am convinced the only alternative is an equivalency formula such as in the turbo days.
If it works on fuel flow or KW equivalent or what ever the days of 'this is the engine' regs have to be done
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

rogazilla
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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Schippke wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:36 am
rogazilla wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:12 pm
they could have just say '100 kg' of fuel per race. Now go and build a PU. Then if you want to improve the efficiency just say every season the allowed fuel is 5kg less. I think that'd attract a lot of engine makers to jump in?
In theory, this sounds great... had not all the current engine manufactures invested so many billions into their current power units. They'd all just keep running with what they already have and optimise accordingly.

5kg less fuel a year would be next to impossible to achieve going forward as well... especially with current technology. Also, imagine the ruling and limitations in order to try and police that with several different type of potential engine variants.
5kg maybe too much but just hypothetical. Make it 1kg per year. The thing with policing, is that There is no need to police the PU. You only need to police the amount of fuel that's in the tank. Let the PU maker make what they want, 3 cylinder up to 12, turbo or not, battery size, recovery. Let them figure out different solutions to run a race with the limit of energy and we will see creativity and great innovations on the track. If someone can make a simple PU cheap enough and use the energy efficient enough to compete that'd allow custom teams and everyone else to enter the sport.

Edax
Edax
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Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:47 pm

Re: Honda leaving F1.

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the EDGE wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:43 pm
Edax wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:05 am
Here’s a thought. Mercedes has been rumored to sell their F1 team.

I doubt that deal would include engine dev. That is too close to Merc core technology. Not having a team affiliated to their name would mean they can be less picky about who they supply to.

Mercedes now supplies to 3 teams, 4 next year. 5 and 6 have just become available.

The step to a semi-spec series based around a single engine has suddenly become very small.
Then why use the current hybrid tech?

Why not move back cheap & reliable V8s. There’s plenty of billionaires wanting to play the real live version of F1 these days

If the costs can be controlled with the new budget cap & 2022 rules bro g card closer in performance we could have 30 cars on the grid in a few years time
Hate to say, it but with even NASCAR moving over to hybrids, I think we can officially close the chapter on naturally aspirated engines.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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rogazilla wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:49 pm
If someone can make a simple PU cheap enough and use the energy efficient enough to compete that'd allow custom teams and everyone else to enter the sport.
You'll end up with a hybrid of some sort, probably like today's but with more channelling of energy through the ERS. Recovering energy wasted in braking is the single biggest way of increasing efficiency. I'd say front axle regen would develop quickly.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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nzjrs
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Location: Austria/UK

Re: Honda leaving F1.

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I wonder what if any series would be interested in just purchasing the Honda engine as a spec component? Super formula? LMPSomething? Indy car? Something new?

anthonyfa18
anthonyfa18
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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https://the-race.com/formula-1/honda-to ... d-of-2021/

Can it become redbull mugen honda for 2022 just like back in the day, rb can support some of the payment for the motor with redbull Technology group

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FW17
238
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:56 am

Re: Honda leaving F1.

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Liberty bought a stake in a US racing team that would be using Acura next year.

Wonder what the thinking behind and what else they are willing to buy.

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Big Tea
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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anthonyfa18 wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:10 pm
https://the-race.com/formula-1/honda-to ... d-of-2021/

Can it become redbull mugen honda for 2022 just like back in the day, rb can support some of the payment for the motor with redbull Technology group
I would like that, even if it was a lime limited run of say 3 years while 'the company' what ever it had become got their own project off the ground.

FIA F1 must have fears of other makers withdrawing, so it would be a perfect partner in this project, especially if it was a close fit to some other series.

In the event of a team then not having a supply, they could buy or rent a competitive engine from FIA.
If some potential teams wanted a start up, they could be allowed to buy last years car (as Racing Point) and this engine until they were competent and established and ready to speculate or invest with their own motor.

If, in addition to this, teams could be persuaded to cough up a couple of one gen old KERS type sets, we could see an increase in competing teams, and full grids again.
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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Edax wrote:
Big Tea wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:51 am
Edax wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:05 am
Here’s a thought. Mercedes has been rumored to sell their F1 team.

I doubt that deal would include engine dev. That is too close to Merc core technology. Not having a team affiliated to their name would mean they can be less picky about who they supply to.

Mercedes now supplies to 3 teams, 4 next year. 5 and 6 have just become available.

The step to a semi-spec series based around a single engine has suddenly become very small.
I just had an image of steam blowing the windows out at Ferrari HQ when they read that :twisted:
There is an alternative. All teams moving to a Ferrari engine.

As I see it this situation is not sustainable. Honda has pulled out, and frankly I am waiting for the same announcement from Renault.

Then we’re down to two. That is Michelin vs Bridgestone again an we know how that ends.

Besides I think Aston Martin and McLaren show that car manufacturers rather have their name on a winning frame than on a losing engine.
A little over dramatic? Before McLaren pulled Honda back into F1 we had 3 engine manufacturers, so in that sense nothing is changing... Mercedes seems to be in (at least from a PU perspective) for the foreseeable future, Ferrari isn’t going anywhere and out of all manufacturers Renault is the one that seems more invested into at least the next 5 years.

Losing Honda won’t be the end of F1, just like it wasn’t when they left in previous eras.


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bill shoe
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Location: Dallas, Texas, USA

Re: Honda leaving F1.

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F1 has a hyper-expensive and hyper difficult-to-develop engine formula that has almost no connection to long-term sustainability/electrification trends with real (road) cars. And F1's forward vision is to rehash this current engine formula for the foreseeable future.

F1 may survive this lack of vision, or it may not. But either way this current engine formula is not doing them any favors.

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Big Tea
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:57 pm
Edax wrote:
Big Tea wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:51 am


I just had an image of steam blowing the windows out at Ferrari HQ when they read that :twisted:
There is an alternative. All teams moving to a Ferrari engine.

As I see it this situation is not sustainable. Honda has pulled out, and frankly I am waiting for the same announcement from Renault.

Then we’re down to two. That is Michelin vs Bridgestone again an we know how that ends.

Besides I think Aston Martin and McLaren show that car manufacturers rather have their name on a winning frame than on a losing engine.
A little over dramatic? Before McLaren pulled Honda back into F1 we had 3 engine manufacturers, so in that sense nothing is changing... Mercedes seems to be in (at least from a PU perspective) for the foreseeable future, Ferrari isn’t going anywhere and out of all manufacturers Renault is the one that seems more invested into at least the next 5 years.

Losing Honda won’t be the end of F1, just like it wasn’t when they left in previous eras.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Honda leaving after putting so much money into it and not winning a championship is going to really deter anyone coming in to F1 for the foreseeable future. I loved Honda and their ethos in F1, but the figures are what will be looked at down the line no matter what reason Honda gives for leaving.

I am sad to see Honda go, but equally sad to see the glaring warning sign to anyone else not to get involved.

Keep out, bad publicity and loads of cash for little return.
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

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Zynerji
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: Honda leaving F1.

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Let's see if Honda puts this tech (mass market derivatives) into road cars.

A 2cyl, front wheel ERS could make a huge market impact while they go carbon neutral.