Alpine A521

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Blackout
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Re: Alpine A521

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
21 Mar 2021, 02:01
stan_french wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 12:15
 
https://i.imgur.com/M3kk6hl.jpg


what on gods green earth are they trying to achieve... is it me, or is the packaging worse than last year and 2019?... It seems that the sidepods havent shrunk and theyre just more positioned for an overcut, and now they have a massive bulge higher up...

Honestly this season isnt looking amazing. (apart from reliability). Fully expecting them to fight for p6-7 in the championship...
2021 side pod is much smaller.

Look at where the "Renault" is on the side. That area is tightened up a good deal.
That's just because the 2020 exhaust manifolds are more compact than 2019
.
Blackout wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 16:44
https://i.imgur.com/TccharU.jpeg
(the green arrow is not relevant here)

aerofoilf1
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Re: Alpine A521

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Rear end comparison vs 2020. Cooling exit shouldn't be compared because 2020 one shown was the higher cooling option, whereas 2021 shown is (so far) the lower cooling one. Upper wishbone is also more angled on the new car.

Image

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Blackout
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Re: Alpine A521

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aerofoilf1 wrote:
21 Mar 2021, 11:15
Rear end comparison vs 2020. Cooling exit shouldn't be compared because 2020 one shown was the higher cooling option, whereas 2021 shown is (so far) the lower cooling one. Upper wishbone is also more angled on the new car.

https://racingtech1.files.wordpress.com ... 105_c.jpeg
And:
viewtopic.php?p=958580#p958580
Last edited by Blackout on 21 Mar 2021, 11:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Blackout
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Re: Alpine A521

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There is definitely something new at each side of the gearbox... (blue) An internal bodywork?
Image

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Blackout
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Re: Alpine A521

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jjn9128 wrote:
17 Mar 2021, 12:56
They're also narrowing the sidepod which reduces the blockage to the diffuser. So swings and roundabouts. Could be in 2022 we see more of this, especially as the side impact tubes are going to be forced into positions which will make the top inlet impossible, slimming the sidepod may be more optimal.
Got another three questions for you (and for the knowledgeable in general) about the basics and about this specific coke bottle and sidepod shape:

Why do airflow seem to slow down above the floor towards the rear? is it because of the tapering shape of the coke bottle that encourages air to 'expand' there? Do teams do this on purpose (slowing it down to increase static pressure on the floor? #pressure_difference) or is it a byproduct of the coke bottle shape..?

And if the purpose of the udercut and coke bottle is to send as much high energy air to the diffuser (and other DF-generating parts?) why did Enstone ditch the 2020 downwashy engine cover unlike the others? Isn't that shape supposed to bring even more energetic flow (top flow) and combine it with the lateral flow?
(And isn't it supposed to reduce sidepod lift too?)

Lastly, what is the purpose of that high energy flow exactly? is it to 'ram' the diffuser 'gurney' flaps even harder (to enhance air extraction, like many say?) + the wheel drum winglets to generate DF?

Image

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Blackout
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Re: Alpine A521

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wowgr8 wrote:
06 Mar 2021, 12:17
https://www.formu1a.uno/wp-content/uplo ... 24x683.jpg

Formu1a uno graphic showing the difference between the 2020 and 2021 car radiator layouts
At first glance, the sidepod coolers seemed to be more 'horizontal to me too, but I think they are angled very similar to 2019, and thus for 2 reasons:

1- the sidepod angle is very similar here (A521 vs RS.19)
Image

2-the angle of the radiators and intercoolers is also dictated by the excavations that the team dug into the sides of the monocoque (coloured here in light blue on the RS.18 tub) to insert the coolers
(RS.18 vs RS.19 comparison)
Image

*The 2020 tub is 95% identical to the 2019 one and the 2021 tub is 100% identical to 2020 due to the freeze.

It is therefore more likely that these coolers have kept a similar angle as 2019 and 2020...

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hollus
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Re: Alpine A521

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The radiator position might be similar to those of 2019, but the sidepod shape is not > it might be something else that they moved.
In your picture above, the sidepod of the 2021 car stops getting wider somewhere under the N of alpine, while in the 2019 one it does so around the N or Renault. One is almost at the beginning of the engine fin, the other almost at the kink of that fin. the difference is what, 40cm? 50cm? Quite amazing.
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Blackout
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Re: Alpine A521

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hollus wrote:
21 Mar 2021, 14:42
The radiator position might be similar to those of 2019, but the sidepod shape is not > it might be something else that they moved.
In your picture above, the sidepod of the 2021 car stops getting wider somewhere under the N of alpine, while in the 2019 one it does so around the N or Renault. One is almost at the beginning of the engine fin, the other almost at the kink of that fin. the difference is what, 40cm? 50cm? Quite amazing.
IMO it's just thanks to the more compact 2020 exhaust manifold (pictured above) :-k (so the overcut body can taper earlier, as you said, when viewed from the top)
Now if we insert the RS.20 between them:
Image

aerofoilf1
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Re: Alpine A521

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Blackout wrote:
21 Mar 2021, 14:04
jjn9128 wrote:
17 Mar 2021, 12:56
They're also narrowing the sidepod which reduces the blockage to the diffuser. So swings and roundabouts. Could be in 2022 we see more of this, especially as the side impact tubes are going to be forced into positions which will make the top inlet impossible, slimming the sidepod may be more optimal.
Got another three questions for you (and for the knowledgeable in general) about the basics and about this specific coke bottle and sidepod shape:

Why do airflow seem to slow down above the floor towards the rear? is it because of the tapering shape of the coke bottle that encourages air to 'expand' there? Do teams do this on purpose (slowing it down to increase static pressure on the floor? #pressure_difference) or is it a byproduct of the coke bottle shape..?

And if the purpose of the udercut and coke bottle is to send as much high energy air to the diffuser (and other DF-generating parts?) why did Enstone ditch the 2020 downwashy engine cover unlike the others? Isn't that shape supposed to bring even more energetic flow (top flow) and combine it with the lateral flow?
(And isn't it supposed to reduce sidepod lift too?)

Lastly, what is the purpose of that high energy flow exactly? is it to 'ram' the diffuser 'gurney' flaps even harder (to enhance air extraction, like many say?) + the wheel drum winglets to generate DF?

https://www.totalsimulation.co.uk/wp-co ... ll_top.png
1) One of the contributors to the pressure rise on the floor's upper surface is the blockage from the rear tyre, which extends far forward on to the floor. Also worth noting you have the diffuser expansion ahead of the rear axle, which is effectively an inclined 'wall' for the oncoming flow and again increases blockage.

2) They did reduce the downwash for 2021, but this also allowed them to increase the undercut and narrow the sidepod, particularly at the bottom. There are two ways to get this high energy flow to the back of the car - over the top of the sidepod, or beneath the inlet and through the undercut. The general grid trend has been to go for the downwash option, but this is not exclusive - for example, McLaren have a big undercut and also some downwash. With more sidepod downwash, you would expect to increase lift (think about how a rear wing produces upwash and therefore load) locally, but then benefit at the rear of the car.

3) This high energy flow gets drawn in between the edge of the diffuser and the inside of the rear tyre, due to the great suction of the diffuser underside. It then helps to limit the negative impact of tyre squirt, improving the mass flow in the diffuser. It also, as you say, helps improve the energy of the flow above the diffuser to the diffuser flaps, and if these are more loaded the whole diffuser benefits, as these determine the exit condition. And providing better flow to the wheel drum winglets is good, not only from a downforce perspective, but also because the vortices they shed will be stronger, and better manage the losses around the rear tyre (more tyre wake than squirt in the case of these vortices).

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godlameroso
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Re: Alpine A521

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Slow low inertia air is high pressure air, trending towards closer to atmospheric 1 bar pressure. When air moves it's speed reduces its pressure. Turbulence or lack thereof does not change this basic principle.

Although the air near the rear tire is turbulent, it is still subject to the principle of air pressure. By slowing down the air traveling over the car and increasing its speed underneath, you create downforce.

Think about laminar flow, it is moving quickly over a surface, the airflow above this laminar flow(AKA boundary layer) is slow moving thus it's pressure is higher. This higher pressure of the boundary layer encourages the flow to become and stay laminar. McLaren did a smart move as did Red Bull, they both have a mixture of over and undercut, but Red Bull has a HUGE gaping space over the diffuser. The pressure gradient of the tire can cause the air destined to the top of the diffuser to go outboard instead.

Last year you had slots you could use to increase the pressure of the tire, right where the pressure of the tire lowers. Low pressure attracts high pressure air, air that could otherwise interact with the diffuser. The slots increased the pressure of the air in the area where the tire begins to move away from the car creating low pressure. This increased the pressure and made the other high pressure air coming off the top of the car go towards the diffuser instead.

This year teams have made up for the lost aero performance of the floor by sculpting the engine cover to allow the best over and undercut around the sidepods and coke bottle exit to feed slow high pressure air over the diffuser.

Low rake cars are suffering more because the floor and low pressure zone of the tire get more enhancement from ground effect. The outside edge of the rear tire is stealing too much airflow from the inner edge.

Renault's packaging leaves a lot to be desired in this area compared to McLaren and Red Bull and their position in the standings will reflect this despite them also having a high rake car.
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Stu
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Re: Alpine A521

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Blackout wrote:
21 Mar 2021, 11:32
There is definitely something new at each side of the gearbox... (blue) An internal bodywork?
https://i.imgur.com/7kz2M9q.png
Saw that and wondered the same!
Is the huge engine cover ducting air through the car, creating a giant air curtain that exits directly above the diffuser...
If it is, they will prosper while everyone points and laughs.
It could be a genius piece of design!!!
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

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Blackout
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Re: Alpine A521

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Thank you for your instructive answer godlameroso and aerofoilf1 and for your interesting analysis here
https://racingtech1.wordpress.com/2021/ ... pine-a521/
https://racingtech1.wordpress.com/2021/ ... -analysis/

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Blackout
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Re: Alpine A521

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Sakhir 21 - Hungary 20
https://i.imgur.com/FLot626.jpg

The natural flowviz version (Sakhir 21 - Turkey 20)
Image
Last edited by Blackout on 22 Mar 2021, 14:58, edited 2 times in total.

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diffuser
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Re: Alpine A521

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Looks like the wide section of the PU cover at the Renault e-tech with the halo is incouraging air flow down through the Castrol edge corridor to the diffuser.

I hadn't though of the possiblity of the wide e-tech section being involved that.

aral
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Re: Alpine A521

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Alpine did run with a normal narrow engine cover for a time in testing. so the bulkiness of this cover is not to enclose any radiators or equipment. meaning that the bulkiness is there in a deliberate attempt to take air down to and out of the rear air tunnels. i wonder what the time differences were?