Quick question on the current regs.
Is it illegal to use the air system from the pneumatic valves to actively flush the prechamber?
I would say, yes it is.
5.14.1 With the exception of incidental leakage through joints or cooling ducts in the inlet system (either into or out of the system), all air entering the engine must enter the bodywork through a maximum of two inlets which are located:
a. Between the front of the cockpit entry template and a point 500mm forward of the rear wheel centre line longitudinally.
b. No less than 200mm above the reference plane vertically.
c. On vertical cross-sections parallel to C-C. Furthermore, any such inlets must be visible in their entirety when viewed from the front of the car without the driver seated in the car and with the secondary roll structure and associated fairing removed (see Article 15.2.6).
5.14.2 The addition of any substance other than fuel, as described in Article 5.10.3, into the air destined for combustion is forbidden. Exhaust gas recirculation is forbidden.
I think it says something like that. And that there are only ever four valves, so whatever that is entering the pre-chamber, it won't work.Zynerji wrote: ↑24 Mar 2021, 23:11If the pneumatic valve air was taken from the plenum, post turbo, it could technically be compressed and used for valve springs, then purged into the combustion chamber, through the prechamber, during the exhaust stroke (obviously not combustion air then). Also, it could still be considered the same combustion air that entered through the proper method, it just takes a different route to get into the chamber.
I think it could be a thing...Unless it specifically states that all combustion air must enter through the intake valve...
It would interesting to find a hard answer. Even the injectors already run 2 fuel inlets (high-temp + low-temp) so they can mix for best fuel temp in the chamber. Why not add a third and push air through it as well? Its not busy injecting fuel during the exhaust stroke..hurril wrote: ↑24 Mar 2021, 23:26I think it says something like that. And that there are only ever four valves, so whatever that is entering the pre-chamber, it won't work.Zynerji wrote: ↑24 Mar 2021, 23:11If the pneumatic valve air was taken from the plenum, post turbo, it could technically be compressed and used for valve springs, then purged into the combustion chamber, through the prechamber, during the exhaust stroke (obviously not combustion air then). Also, it could still be considered the same combustion air that entered through the proper method, it just takes a different route to get into the chamber.
I think it could be a thing...Unless it specifically states that all combustion air must enter through the intake valve...
They could bleed the valve into precamber, so prechamber will shut the last compared to the cylinder. This would mitigate soot build up inside prechamber. The most tricky is how to use single injector for both cylinder and prechamber, so I still believe they design 2 injector into one, with completely separate timing and volume to create workaround from the regulations.hurril wrote: ↑24 Mar 2021, 23:26I think it says something like that. And that there are only ever four valves, so whatever that is entering the pre-chamber, it won't work.Zynerji wrote: ↑24 Mar 2021, 23:11If the pneumatic valve air was taken from the plenum, post turbo, it could technically be compressed and used for valve springs, then purged into the combustion chamber, through the prechamber, during the exhaust stroke (obviously not combustion air then). Also, it could still be considered the same combustion air that entered through the proper method, it just takes a different route to get into the chamber.
I think it could be a thing...Unless it specifically states that all combustion air must enter through the intake valve...
This guy back in 2010.He was a goddamn genius. Isn't that what Merc did to an extent?joseff wrote: ↑13 Dec 2010, 05:35Okay, how about autogyro's idea but with mechanical coupling?
So you have the turbine on the exhaust side, then a propshaft going through the engine, probably through the crankcase. The compressor is then on the intake side.
The intercooler goes on top and fed by the usual roll hoop ram intake
Benefits:
- shorter exhaust manifold
- shorter intake path
- vertical cylinders (better in terms of wear?)
- smaller footprint like a 2.4 V8
Hmm i really like your train of thoughts. Some sortish sub branching in mapping. Mann. i guess small "mini Ai" algorithms are at play also. At least in driver in loop simulations i would think.NL_Fer wrote: ↑29 May 2021, 14:57Has there been any thoughts about how the power output can be influenced without changing the engine maps. Could it be possible to use some sensor input to “detect” conditions were a flying lap is started or the first lap of the race.
Changing maps is not allowed, but when such characteristics are built inside a mapping, it is allowed.
Heh i remember sketches of one guy who drew that, Or was even him. Yeah in concept Merc did exactly that. Maybe he is now Merc engineer or some other Merc engineer got idea from him HAHA. I guess he needs some pile of cash on its account for that domination. hehflmkane wrote: ↑08 Aug 2021, 11:31This guy back in 2010.He was a goddamn genius. Isn't that what Merc did to an extent?joseff wrote: ↑13 Dec 2010, 05:35Okay, how about autogyro's idea but with mechanical coupling?
So you have the turbine on the exhaust side, then a propshaft going through the engine, probably through the crankcase. The compressor is then on the intake side.
The intercooler goes on top and fed by the usual roll hoop ram intake
Benefits:
- shorter exhaust manifold
- shorter intake path
- vertical cylinders (better in terms of wear?)
- smaller footprint like a 2.4 V8
Looking at the fumes of dry ice on the starting grid this weekend, it remembered me about this. It think it is pretty easy to cool certain sensor readings in an area for one or two laps. Than have an ICE mapping were the powerunit gives more power, as long as the sensor is kept cool. Gives the car a little more performance each qualifying session and at the first few race laps.aleks_ader wrote: ↑18 Sep 2021, 14:07Hmm i really like your train of thoughts. Some sortish sub branching in mapping. Mann. i guess small "mini Ai" algorithms are at play also. At least in driver in loop simulations i would think.NL_Fer wrote: ↑29 May 2021, 14:57Has there been any thoughts about how the power output can be influenced without changing the engine maps. Could it be possible to use some sensor input to “detect” conditions were a flying lap is started or the first lap of the race.
Changing maps is not allowed, but when such characteristics are built inside a mapping, it is allowed.
I guess hybrid system nowadays makes job for FIA that almost impossible. How you are are gona to catch on such acts of indecency. How they dare to fool us.Anyway. Also would be perfectly legal. I trough those years in interviews from Allison, @amazingWazzariSan, Cowell and even Marmorini, Binotto got the impression that those v6 PUs nowadays act much more at its own accords constantly. SYSTEM that acts from local moment and adjust to the best overall lap time (lets say overall maximums) that is predicted and simulated beforehand. So from corner to corner from ENTRY, MID, EXIT independently from previous lap even. That variations are unavoidable because it depends on witch session/part of race is on atm, fuel always goes down, traction starts braking (tire deg, conditions of surface), derating of components, air condition changes (even dirty hot air). Soyeah its quite a feed and complex engineering. Juggling at minimum 6 separate PU entities at its owns brings huge mapping problem. Don't to mention that drivers wants consistency from corner to corner, lap after lap.
It could go from the 45ishPSI turbo outlet into another compressor for the 250PSI boost, then it satisfies the word of the regulations.Bandit1216 wrote: ↑10 May 2021, 10:21About pneumatic valve "springs' fed by the turbo; Aren't we missing the fact that it's actually nitrogen at 250 psi orso. "only" 3 bar of turbo pressure would make the piston of the valve spring way too big. Bigger then the bore of the engine.