2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.
bonjon1979
bonjon1979
50
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:16 pm

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

carisi2k wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:42 am
The problem with this theory is that Lewis went outside the track limits 29 times in the race at turn 4. It allowed him to gain a significant advantage because it allowed him to keep in contact with Max early in the race. The rule I thought was that they would not penalise unless you gained an everlasting advantage. Lewis certainly did gain an everlasting advantage because what if Max had an extra 2-5 second gap around the pit stops. This is enough that he could have pitted the following lap and retained the lead.
From the screenshots, it looked like Max was off track an awful lot as well.

Also, if the race director explicitly tells the drivers that track limits wouldn't be monitored there, then you can't then expect the drivers to stick to them. Masi confirmed as much after the event, and even admitted that they changed the directive mid-race because some drivers were taking it too far. Overtaking off track has always been outlawed, otherwise, every driver would just not bother braking, shoot past and rejoin ahead. As for the argument that the move was already done, Max was only able to get ahead because he was able to brake later because he could run wide afterwards. It would be like people just not braking in time for the end chicane in canada - flying straight on while the other car takes the corner and rejoining in front. If one applied the same argument, you could say that the car behind was in front before the corner - obviously, if you don't brake hard enough to take the corner and the car in front does. You will over take them before the bend, you just will then be going too fast to make the corner.

KiLLu12258
KiLLu12258
1
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:55 pm

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

e30ernest wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:43 am
Shrieker wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:26 am
foxmulder_ms wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:26 pm
People are a bit harsh to Bottas. Without the 11sec pit he would be fighting and undercut Max.
This.

He pitted with the gap hovering around 3.7 seconds, and either would've leapfrogged him, or forced him to pit a lot earlier than he actually did, helping the team immensely. And when Max was pushing to catch Hamilton, he could've eased off a bit, look after the tires, and wait for them to fall back towards him when they inevitably got entangled in the end.
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:44 am

The undercut wss gone but Bottas would have been used as blocker when Max pits to fall behind him.
Most certainly it wasn't. Bottas pitted with a gap of 3.7 seconds to Max, meaning Max would've had to respond immediately the following lap, or get leapfrogged. Bottas would've almost certainly clawed back more than 3.7 secs in 2 laps. The pit mishap was really, really unfortunate for Bottas, and could've costed the team the win.

I feel bad for Bottas. He drove a good race. There are times when he deserves the criticism, but this time around, he doesn't.

coulve be a good race if he didnt slept the whole beginning. Again he lost the start like nearly every Race and after that he lost seconds over seconds over the first stint.

At some point it was a decent drive but its the same as usual for him. He is not "there" from the start and losing ground for that reason.

User avatar
dans79
457
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

DChemTech wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:03 am
I can drive within the lines on a highway, and I'm not a particularly spectacular driver at that.
youu're not driving at the limit of downforce, mechanical grip, tire temperature, brake temperature, engine temperature, etc etc.
181 103 103 7

DChemTech
DChemTech
72
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:31 am
Location: Delft, NL

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

dans79 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:14 am
DChemTech wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:03 am
I can drive within the lines on a highway, and I'm not a particularly spectacular driver at that.
youu're not driving at the limit of downforce, mechanical grip, tire temperature, brake temperature, engine temperature, etc etc.
Ah, yes, that part was the essence of my post :roll:

Anyhow, despite driving at those limits, F1 drivers appear to be quite capable of coloring within the lines if they are told to (and quite consistent in crossing them if they're not).

User avatar
Vasconia
40
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:45 am
Location: Basque Country

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

lh13 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:49 am
NL_Fer wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:10 am
What if Max just followed both Lewis’ pitstops? He would be much closer and the guy in front.

Maybe struggle with tyre wear, but so would Hamilton.
He would have ended up behind if he pitted the next lap, because the undercut was too strong, and then there would be no fight, as both would be on tires with the same life.
I think it would have been interesting to see. I don´t see RB's theoretical superiority on long runs so maybe Lewis would be able to hold Max.

About the incident, I see extrange how Max looked slower after he let Lewis go through. I was sure he had a problem but It seems I was wrong. Still, I consider it a weird thing as he was clearly faster before the overtake. He should have been able to attack Lewis again but he couldn´t do it.

bosyber
bosyber
63
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:41 pm

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

Vasconia wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:26 am
lh13 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:49 am
NL_Fer wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:10 am
What if Max just followed both Lewis’ pitstops? He would be much closer and the guy in front.

Maybe struggle with tyre wear, but so would Hamilton.
He would have ended up behind if he pitted the next lap, because the undercut was too strong, and then there would be no fight, as both would be on tires with the same life.
I think it would have been interesting to see. I don´t see RB's theoretical superiority on long runs so maybe Lewis would be able to hold Max.

About the incident, I see extrange how Max looked slower after he let Lewis go through. I was sure he had a problem but It seems I was wrong. Still, I consider it a weird thing as he was clearly faster before the overtake. He should have been able to attack Lewis again but he couldn´t do it.
We could see he had a slight stepping out at the back just after, might well be that his tyres overheated a bit, and when that happens, they lose out quite a bit.

maxxer
maxxer
0
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 11:01 am

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:14 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:45 am
What do you guys think of Danny Ric?
Great qualifying but the race got away from him a bit.
I think he needs a bit of time to settle in, but I also think a lot of people have been underestimating Lando Norris.
Maybe struggling with the stopping power of the new merc ?

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
817
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

Manoah2u wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:32 am
Did those Diff issues cause enough - perhaps paired to a damaged floor - to 'hand' Lewis the win? Perhaps, it surely didn't help.
The floor would have been repaired as allowed in parc ferme rules.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

User avatar
Schuttelberg
72
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:02 am

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

Seb is over. Binotto dishing out the insults.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

bosyber
bosyber
63
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:41 pm

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

Schuttelberg wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:14 am
Seb is over. Binotto dishing out the insults.
That's really very Ferrari, shows insecurity, lack of class, kicking someone when he's down etc. and doesn't help anyone. Anyone doing that, or cheering for it, goes down in my opinion.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
817
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

DChemTech wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:03 am

And yeah, sure, you can opt to allow one or two minor digressions and only give warnings, and only penalize the third, like is already done now in some cases. But that last part is where the problem is: now, it is in some cases. Which corners are monitored changes per race, and apparently, mid-race. There should be absolutely no ambiguity on track limits: you stay in the lines, whole track, every corner, unless you are pushed off or avoiding an incident - and warnings should add up over all the track, not on a per-corner basis.
It's the inconsistency that is the issue, not how the rule is applied. The drivers were told that Turn 4 is free game in the race. Some took that on board and drove accordingly, some didn't. But then to change the rule mid race was where it went wrong.

The irony was that it was Horner coming on the radio and making a big thing of telling Max to drive wide in Turn 4 that caused the race director to change his mind. Horner got his way because Massi changed the rule mid race. But it didn't help Max in the way that Horner hoped. That's a bit of karma, really, because Horner was trying to mess with the race in a non-racing way.

But Max's overtake was always going to be illegal and he would always have been penalised - either by a "hand back" requirement or a time penalty. Even if Max had ignored the "hand back" notice, I'm sure the stewards would have given a time penalty that resulted in him being second. Remember Kimi wandering in to the cool down room after the race a couple of years ago, Max asking him why he was there and Kimi saying "you've been penalised for your overtake" (with a smile on his face)?
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Restomaniac
Restomaniac
8
Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 12:09 am
Location: Hull

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:58 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:12 pm

Both teams will have tough decisions this year though, as these cars are development dead ends.
Is it a tough decision? This year, currently, both are in with a good chance of the title(s). Next year, they might fluff it anyway and then be behind the front end of the grid. So it's a good chance this year or a possible chance next.

Or: Jam today, jam tomorrow.

I think Mercedes will want to get the title this year because, if for no other reason, it would mean they had all of the titles for this particular era. That is unheard of in the history of F1, isn't it? So they may be prepared to risk next year if it gets them this year in the bag.
Surely it isn’t like for like anyway. There are far more prescribed parts so I can’t see how it would take the amount of work as previously.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
817
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

Schuttelberg wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:14 am
Seb is over. Binotto dishing out the insults.
What did he say?
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
817
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

Restomaniac wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:24 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:58 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:12 pm

Both teams will have tough decisions this year though, as these cars are development dead ends.
Is it a tough decision? This year, currently, both are in with a good chance of the title(s). Next year, they might fluff it anyway and then be behind the front end of the grid. So it's a good chance this year or a possible chance next.

Or: Jam today, jam tomorrow.

I think Mercedes will want to get the title this year because, if for no other reason, it would mean they had all of the titles for this particular era. That is unheard of in the history of F1, isn't it? So they may be prepared to risk next year if it gets them this year in the bag.
Surely it isn’t like for like anyway. There are far more prescribed parts so I can’t see how it would take the amount of work as previously.
There are enough areas that a team can find an advantage. If it's a hidden/hard to see part of the car, it could take a season to overcome it.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

InsaneX_Badger
InsaneX_Badger
0
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:03 pm

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

What did Binotto say about Vettel?