2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.
User avatar
El Scorchio
57
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

SiLo wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:00 am
mika vs michael wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:50 am
I have been watching F1 since 90's...yes previous century...one of the things I miss is the F1 drivers character...I mean now they are totally like soldiers...they don't take decisions. they don't defy their teams. Vettel a few times Hamilton maybe questioning a few times. Verstappen complaining. I would enjoy a Verstappen that would not give the place back. Make Hamilton win it in the stewards room... not on track. I mean I miss that tension and controversy. They look to me more like playstation gamers...no flare no heat. And that has to do with the fact that now things are so controlled and so predictable that drivers are like a piece of the machine. like a part that if does not comply it will be replaced. back then you need to have some kind of character and skills. sorry for the nostalgic tone. In the end Verstappen might have got a 5 secs penalty and lose the 1st place but anyway.
Having also watched from the 90's, I'm not sure where you've got that idea from. Drivers were still nice back then, and only a few would have been a total dick about it.
I'd add as well that F1 is far more data driven than it was in the 90s. There's far less room for instinct and hunches now when you can feed all the variables into a computer and it'll tell you the optimum way to finish a race as quickly as possible.

astracrazy
astracrazy
56
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:04 pm

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

mzso wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:32 pm
astracrazy wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:47 am
lh13 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:41 am
According to Helmut Marko, Max wasn't using full power as a precaution because of the problem with diff. So it remains to be seen if RedBull and Mercedes are actually close or does RedBull have more in hand.
At that point I lost interest.
Why? Because he's frank to often?
The majority of the time he speaks he talks nonsense.

mika vs michael
mika vs michael
-1
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:35 am

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

To avoid any misunderstandings, I did not mean that drivers back then were nasty characters and now are very nice. I mean I miss some of the controversy that those characters would create because of their competitive nature in all fields...I think Alonso Raikkonen and Vettel have something like that. They were willing to cross red lines and boundaries. I kind of liked how Vettel drove in Canada 2018...I think those attitudes and characters seem not much wanted in nowadays F1. maybe it's a change of era and paradigm on many levels. Anyway it is off topic. I think Verstappen brings back some kind of that flare and Leclerc. Of course the Mercedes domination played its role. Anyway it goes off topic so I stop here.
"It is necessary to relax your muscles when you can. Relaxing your brain is fatal." Stirling Moss

I tried this and I had understeer, I tried that and I had oversteer, at the end of the corner I just run out of talent

mika vs michael
mika vs michael
-1
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:35 am

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

El Scorchio wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:16 am
SiLo wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:00 am
mika vs michael wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:50 am
I have been watching F1 since 90's...yes previous century...one of the things I miss is the F1 drivers character...I mean now they are totally like soldiers...they don't take decisions. they don't defy their teams. Vettel a few times Hamilton maybe questioning a few times. Verstappen complaining. I would enjoy a Verstappen that would not give the place back. Make Hamilton win it in the stewards room... not on track. I mean I miss that tension and controversy. They look to me more like playstation gamers...no flare no heat. And that has to do with the fact that now things are so controlled and so predictable that drivers are like a piece of the machine. like a part that if does not comply it will be replaced. back then you need to have some kind of character and skills. sorry for the nostalgic tone. In the end Verstappen might have got a 5 secs penalty and lose the 1st place but anyway.
Having also watched from the 90's, I'm not sure where you've got that idea from. Drivers were still nice back then, and only a few would have been a total dick about it.
I'd add as well that F1 is far more data driven than it was in the 90s. There's far less room for instinct and hunches now when you can feed all the variables into a computer and it'll tell you the optimum way to finish a race as quickly as possible.
Yes you are right. I mean they trust the machines more than the instinct of the drivers and what I see is a trend that shapes characters and skills. The drivers obey to the system more and more and accept what the computer say. In the end we could throw all variables into a computer and have a simulated race...they dont have to be on the circuit...we could watch the simulation. I'd like to see drivers make their own calls from time to time and defy team instructions and orders. the only recent time we had some kind of intense battles was the 2016...and most of it happened behind the scenes. I think Toto Wolff's control freak attitude and Mercedes dominance is making things less exciting. Ferrari did the same in a way during the golden 2000-2004 period.
"It is necessary to relax your muscles when you can. Relaxing your brain is fatal." Stirling Moss

I tried this and I had understeer, I tried that and I had oversteer, at the end of the corner I just run out of talent

User avatar
SiLo
127
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

mika vs michael wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:38 pm
To avoid any misunderstandings, I did not mean that drivers back then were nasty characters and now are very nice. I mean I miss some of the controversy that those characters would create because of their competitive nature in all fields...I think Alonso Raikkonen and Vettel have something like that. They were willing to cross red lines and boundaries. I kind of liked how Vettel drove in Canada 2018...I think those attitudes and characters seem not much wanted in nowadays F1. maybe it's a change of era and paradigm on many levels. Anyway it is off topic. I think Verstappen brings back some kind of that flare and Leclerc. Of course the Mercedes domination played its role. Anyway it goes off topic so I stop here.
Did we not have that with Rosberg and Hamilton? Magnussen being aggressive? The issue honestly hasn't been the drivers it's been the general lack of competition at the sharp end of the grid. There has been plenty of aggression and questionable things happening further down the grid but it just gets less attention.
Felipe Baby!

User avatar
hUirEYExbN
4
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:30 pm

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

mika vs michael wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:50 am
....
I would enjoy a Verstappen that would not give the place back. Make Hamilton win it in the stewards room... not on track.
....
Personally, I don't want races decided after the chequered flag.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
774
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

mika vs michael wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:50 am
I would enjoy a Verstappen that would not give the place back. Make Hamilton win it in the stewards room... not on track. I mean I miss that tension and controversy.
It was things like that that made F1 a laughing stock back in the day. People watch the race, everyone celebrates and then the result was quietly changed afterwards. You'd check the news on Monday to find out who had eventually won the race you watched on Sunday. It's a great way to make people stop watching F1, if that is your goal.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
774
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

mika vs michael wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:47 pm
I'd like to see drivers make their own calls from time to time and defy team instructions and orders. the only recent time we had some kind of intense battles was the 2016...and most of it happened behind the scenes. I think Toto Wolff's control freak attitude and Mercedes dominance is making things less exciting. Ferrari did the same in a way during the golden 2000-2004 period.
Do you mean like Hamilton does when he decides to stay out rather than pit when his team tells him to? He's done that on a number of occasions in order to beat his team mate to the win. I think Max has done similar, and Seb famously said "tough luck" when told to let his team mate through as previously agreed. So these things do happen.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

User avatar
Big Tea
164
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

SiLo wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:00 am
mika vs michael wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:50 am
I have been watching F1 since 90's...yes previous century...one of the things I miss is the F1 drivers character...I mean now they are totally like soldiers...they don't take decisions. they don't defy their teams. Vettel a few times Hamilton maybe questioning a few times. Verstappen complaining. I would enjoy a Verstappen that would not give the place back. Make Hamilton win it in the stewards room... not on track. I mean I miss that tension and controversy. They look to me more like playstation gamers...no flare no heat. And that has to do with the fact that now things are so controlled and so predictable that drivers are like a piece of the machine. like a part that if does not comply it will be replaced. back then you need to have some kind of character and skills. sorry for the nostalgic tone. In the end Verstappen might have got a 5 secs penalty and lose the 1st place but anyway.
Having also watched from the 90's, I'm not sure where you've got that idea from. Drivers were still nice back then, and only a few would have been a total dick about it.
Also, if your team mate or opposition decided to demonstrate to you it was not a nice thing to do, even a break test in the 'wrong' place could lead to serious consequences. It really was a risk to 'take a risk', and not just for the car.
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

Marble
Marble
23
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:30 pm

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

Hi !
On the F1 App, there is no speed data available for any of the drivers / any session.
Anyone else experiencing this problem and could help me to get the speed data ? Thanks

michl420
michl420
12
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:08 pm
Location: Austria

Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

Post

hollus wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:13 am
Regarding Bottas’ last pit stop to get the fastest lap: How wise was it and much of a team decision was it?
He was almost certain to collect that 1 point. But coming from a botched pit stop in the same race, there was a real risk of losing time stuck in the pits again. He’d roughly lose 3 points for every 5 seconds stuck. How many bad pit stops did he have in 2020? 2, 3, 4? Not sure of the number, but I remember it as “many”. So he had a 5% chance of losing points, potentially losing all his 15 points.
Meanwhile, looking forward, he was 10-15 seconds behind a dog fight. The chances of those two spinning, getting a flat tire or losing the front wing was relatively high, and being 10 seconds behind, you might win 3 points or even 10. He gave that away. Certainly he gave up his best chance at a not impossible win, and, were both to DNF, he created this 5% scenario where Norris would inherit that win.
Was the 1 point for fastest lap worth all the risks?
Maybe, just maybe, the fact that he took that fastest lap point from Max might have played a role.
Although he went for the point several times in the past.

All hypothetical scenarios, but interesting i my mind. What is the real risk of botching it in those last minute pit stops?
I know what you mean, and I often think the same way. But on some point you must act on things that are and not things that could be, especially when you drive for a WC. To think this further, when you don`t make a pit stop because you fear that your crew make a mistake, is that not a sign of trust to them. The next thing would be, oh we make only 1 stop races because it minimise the risk. Everyone see that this is nonsense.
Your thoughts are right, but I think mercedes must see it more like I write it. I also think Verstappen have learned that to win a championschip a crash is a no go.