Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Zynerji wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:09 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:43 pm
https://i.imgur.com/E6JE2Xp.jpg

This picture is really telling, because that's half of the camshaft width. Granted we don't know how tall the cylinder head itself is, however that is the valve cylinder head cover. The cylinder head itself tends to be roughly the same height as the cover itself.

The cylinder bore is 80 mm, so either side of the actual cylinder head, 80mm will be taken up by the combustion chamber. Meaning the cylinder head is as wide as that cover is, because why would you make your cylinder head wider than the cover?

If the cams are that close together maybe there's a pivoting rocker in between them.

One thing that's very apparent in this image is how much stiffer and stronger the mounting points are on the new engine. That has to help chassis rigidity, particularly at the rear end.
I believe Mario Teissens BMW paper specifically mentions the chassis rigidity of the engine. He speaks as if they found a certain amount of flex was actually desirable over an ultra stiff design.
You want a certain amount of compliance sure, the compliance of all the different components are added together. The stiffer something is, the more load it transmits, because some flex has the function of dissipating certain loads. Also stiffer loads are also more prone to resonant frequencies, where as less stiffness can dampen that to an extent.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

KAIZEN
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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By regulation, you cannot change the mounting position of PU, right?
I tried to match only the two bolt positions.
Image
It is similar to the inclination of the head cover of the CBR1000RR-R.
Image

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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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KAIZEN wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:13 pm
By regulation, you cannot change the mounting position of PU, right?
I tried to match only the two bolt positions.
https://i.imgur.com/DPahXPQ.jpg
It is similar to the inclination of the head cover of the CBR1000RR-R.
https://i.imgur.com/0Q8U7QN.jpg
The cams are even closer together, and the intake is on the other side, but yes, shows you how flat they can make the roof this way.

The cams determine where the valves are. I'd say the Honda F1 is a good 15mm at least closer together than the CBR.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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MtthsMlw
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Just some numbers to look at
Image

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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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MtthsMlw wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:06 pm
Just some numbers to look at
https://i.redd.it/cfhabxfei6r61.jpg
Sweet!

So ~29psi at 80k rpm MGU-H rpm. 125k rpm would be somewhere around 47 psi no?

1.22kg of fuel per lap at Barcelona. That comes out to around 80kg of fuel. The other screen is at 1.36. So around 90kg.

2.34kg over 2 laps.

66 laps and 110kg available, this means teams can roughly underfuel by ~20-30kg? Why would you though?

I understand it makes more sense when the cars are ~500kg, but we're a long way off from that. These cars are like 750kg now, and with 90kg of fuel you're at 840kg. At 840kg, an extra 20 will make a much smaller difference than 580kg wet with driver.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

hurril
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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What do we think is the meaning of TExL and TExR? Temperature of gas entering the turbine? Why would they be that different? Do we think that they run different combustion parameters on each bank because that gains them something?

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subcritical71
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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hurril wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:42 pm
What do we think is the meaning of TExL and TExR? Temperature of gas entering the turbine? Why would they be that different? Do we think that they run different combustion parameters on each bank because that gains them something?
The graphs on the bottom (except for the track map) show TExhaustL & R, and the trend line definitely shows a substantial difference between the two almost the entire lap.

hurril
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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subcritical71 wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:35 pm
hurril wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:42 pm
What do we think is the meaning of TExL and TExR? Temperature of gas entering the turbine? Why would they be that different? Do we think that they run different combustion parameters on each bank because that gains them something?
The graphs on the bottom (except for the track map) show TExhaustL & R, and the trend line definitely shows a substantial difference between the two almost the entire lap.
So definitely something. One bank has a "gas generation" bias, the other a mechanical power one? What do you think? Take a wild guess :)

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subcritical71
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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That’s what I’m thinking also. I’m not sure but it looks like there is a xWGL, xWGR, and a xWGTLR (where x is I can’t see that small) on the left side they are at different values while on the right side they are the same. If they are really only using that much fuel per lap and these were not slow laps then that leaves quite a bit for energy recovery (H), I don’t see why they wouldn’t use that if they can deploy more K per lap. But it doesn’t make sense to drive the turbo differently from a L/R perspective(?)

echa_sanoku
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I was able to buy and download full NHK video (it wasn't easy). Engineers from Kumamoto factory unlocked the full potential of Honda engine by introducing special coating for cylinders. The cylinders were not able to withstand heat and friction - that's the reason why Honda wasn't able to use full power.

It's an amazing story - small workshop located in the corner of the factory changed the history of F1.

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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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At the top PO = Pressure Oil.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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lio007
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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:D mIllegal

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henry
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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subcritical71 wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:05 pm
That’s what I’m thinking also. I’m not sure but it looks like there is a xWGL, xWGR, and a xWGTLR (where x is I can’t see that small) on the left side they are at different values while on the right side they are the same. If they are really only using that much fuel per lap and these were not slow laps then that leaves quite a bit for energy recovery (H), I don’t see why they wouldn’t use that if they can deploy more K per lap. But it doesn’t make sense to drive the turbo differently from a L/R perspective(?)
I can convince myself that it reads xWG.. and the units are mm. So perhaps WasteGate lift?

The ones above that look like xIntake.. and again units mm. So maybe variable intake trumpet length, or displacement?

On the right hand graph associated with exhaust temperatures the traces for Left and Right cross with the banks swapping characteristics.

Judging from the time on the top graph, 13.35.34.120, I think these might be in a practice session or possibly Q2. The previous lap times, tLastLap, are very long and the State of Charge, SOC, very high (99%) so maybe this is a warm up or installation lap.

None the less really interesting.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

f1motta
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Cylinder plating - Honda's secret weapon. Amazing job did in small workshop in Kumamoto factory unlocked their full potential.

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subcritical71
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henry wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:39 am
The previous lap times, tLastLap, are very long and the State of Charge, SOC, very high (99%) so maybe this is a warm up or installation lap.
What do you make of the SOC bar graph? Units are SOC and has some delimiters at what looks like 0, 20, 95 and 100. Both sides show the SOC as >99% but the bar itself is around 90%. I thought about SOC of battery vs SOC range allowed by the rules but then the highlighted part of the chart wouldn't go to 0 unless its a limitation of their software.