If you can show a bird using its alula to control tyre wake and inflow around a ground effect floor, you might have a point in comparing birds and cars.godlameroso wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 00:37In nature, form tends to be strongly correlated with function. From chemistry to physics. Unless the birds are using a different type of air than F1 cars, then they're subject to the same physical laws.Just_a_fan wrote: ↑01 Apr 2021, 23:20Resembling in appearance does not mean they are similar in action.
What's good for the goose, is good for the...F1 gander.
It does act like a VG, that's how airflow stays attached in its "cupped" configuration.Just_a_fan wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 02:18If you can show a bird using its alula to control tyre wake and inflow around a ground effect floor, you might have a point in comparing birds and cars.godlameroso wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 00:37In nature, form tends to be strongly correlated with function. From chemistry to physics. Unless the birds are using a different type of air than F1 cars, then they're subject to the same physical laws.Just_a_fan wrote: ↑01 Apr 2021, 23:20Resembling in appearance does not mean they are similar in action.
What's good for the goose, is good for the...F1 gander.
Yes, both work with air, but they aren't doing the same things for the same reasons.
In a stooping falcon, the alula isn't acting as a vg trying to turn air away from a sensitive zone, it's acting as a control surface to steer the bird in combination with the tail.
Oh please.godlameroso wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 13:33It does act like a VG, that's how airflow stays attached in its "cupped" configuration.Just_a_fan wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 02:18If you can show a bird using its alula to control tyre wake and inflow around a ground effect floor, you might have a point in comparing birds and cars.godlameroso wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 00:37
In nature, form tends to be strongly correlated with function. From chemistry to physics. Unless the birds are using a different type of air than F1 cars, then they're subject to the same physical laws.
What's good for the goose, is good for the...F1 gander.
Yes, both work with air, but they aren't doing the same things for the same reasons.
In a stooping falcon, the alula isn't acting as a vg trying to turn air away from a sensitive zone, it's acting as a control surface to steer the bird in combination with the tail.
Another interesting bit is how the inner wing acts like a cape for the tail, very obvious when they spread their wings. Same contour, same function, providing clean air to their diffuser/tail to keep it from stalling.
Why such strong pushback?Just_a_fan wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 22:59Oh please.godlameroso wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 13:33It does act like a VG, that's how airflow stays attached in its "cupped" configuration.Just_a_fan wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 02:18
If you can show a bird using its alula to control tyre wake and inflow around a ground effect floor, you might have a point in comparing birds and cars.
Yes, both work with air, but they aren't doing the same things for the same reasons.
In a stooping falcon, the alula isn't acting as a vg trying to turn air away from a sensitive zone, it's acting as a control surface to steer the bird in combination with the tail.
Another interesting bit is how the inner wing acts like a cape for the tail, very obvious when they spread their wings. Same contour, same function, providing clean air to their diffuser/tail to keep it from stalling.
When thinking of air, you have to consider the air around the object. Some air is attached to the car due to viscous forces, and that air gets dragged along with the car, but the air around the object is not. The dragged air along the vehicle skin and the boundary where the dragged air stops interacting with the surrounding air is called the boundary layer.hecti wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 17:20This seems like far fetched but don't we have to look at not only the air underneath and above the floor, but the air coming over the sidepod as well? There are 3-4 distinct flows that all converge in roughly the same area, if the more "Z" shaped cut out is really acting like an Alula (which seems very possible, as falcons can reach the same speeds F1 cars can) then maybe we can draw some conclusions as to what is going on. When looked at individually we don't see the clear picture. If we assume that the y250 vortex, strengthened by the barge boards and then merged with the underbody flows that exit from the sides of the floor after the barge boards all converge, then it leaves a gap that needs to be filled, mostly by the air coming over the side pods which most have a slope element towards the cutout and maybe flow over the flow that comes around the under cut of the sidepod. this flow interacts with the cutout and the small floor edge VGs to create a vortex that may seem like a leaky edge but actually seals the diffuser from the inward tire squirt further back. The harder the air floor is worked underneath (ie: high rake) at the beginning of the floor the more effective the cutout vortex is.
I like those pictures, I posted them last year a few times to illustrate the same thing. Forum regular Platinum Zealot has the correct interpretation, the slots do make little vortecies, and they merge with the tire squirt. Remember that vortecies get pulled by low pressure systems and pushed by high pressure ones. Therefore, they're pushed by the tire face, and pulled by the tire wake. Furthermore the vortcies they shed merge with the main diffuser because they have the same angular momentum.hecti wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 20:54Here are two images from Perez's blow from Bahrain last year, if you look even though you would think that the floor cut outs would make it seem that they should be helping move the air to the outside of the tire, in reality, the majority of the steam gets pulled into a vortex towards the inside of the tire, protecting the diffuser from tire squirt.
https://i.redd.it/y437bb28nc261.jpg
https://www.formula1.com/content/dam/fo ... 9BT6gBR9fh
All I am saying is that the higher rake cars can use their rake advantage to create a stronger underside floor edge vortex because of the greater suction effect the high rake provides. The cut out in the end affects both sides (high and low rake) but high rake cars seem to loose less than high rake.
A vortex is a core of low pressure which tends to the local pressure as one goes further from the core. There is low pressure and there is "freestream pressure" and there is the gradient between the two. There is no high pressure wall around a vortex other than the relatively higher pressure in the freestream. There is a gradient boundary layer effect just as there is with a wing.godlameroso wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 22:08The air on the walls of the vortex are high pressure because the centrifugal force of the vortex creates its own boundary layer. That high pressure boundary layer fills in the low pressure behind the tire.
Yes there is. The core of the vortex is low pressure, the spinning low pressure has centrifugal force which pushes air outwards creating the wall of the vortex and gives the core its low pressure.Just_a_fan wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 23:42A vortex is a core of low pressure which tends to the local pressure as one goes further from the core. There is low pressure and there is "freestream pressure" and there is the gradient between the two. There is no high pressure wall around a vortex other than the relatively higher pressure in the freestream. There is a gradient boundary layer effect just as there is with a wing.godlameroso wrote: ↑12 Apr 2021, 22:08The air on the walls of the vortex are high pressure because the centrifugal force of the vortex creates its own boundary layer. That high pressure boundary layer fills in the low pressure behind the tire.
vortices