2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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toraabe wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 10:53 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 7:28 am
Mclarensenna wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 12:50 am
Can anybody here confirm or know how exactly many overtakes happened in Monaco on Sunday?
There was definitely one between the two Haas cars. Other than that, no one has mentioned any others.
A few. Anyway at least that race is over. Monaco grand prix is always the most boring race on the calendar. Basically no overtakes.......
Someone had said three. (on track, proper, overtakes)

The Haas boys at the hairpin.
Alonso on someone in turn three of lap 1.
Can't remember the third.

Anothe issue is the start doesn't really even mix it up very much as the run to Sainte Devote is so short with zero run off area, (I know there's the escape road, but that's only if you just go straight on rather than a place to go to avoid a crash) and no-one is prepared to get too punchy and risk their race ending so soon.

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hollus
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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I want to propose an alternative narrative:
Lewis is called to the pits at the same time as in reality, but he is 0.3 seconds faster in his in lap, or his mechanics are 0.3 seconds faster.
He comes out side by side with Gasly but holds on in front of him. A lap later, Vettel comes out of the pits just behind Lewis as he could push.
The cars in front stay out of the pits and 5 laps later there is a safety car. Everyone pits and Lewis emerges in second after a flexible, aggressive strategy from his team finds the only opportunity to limit damage from 7th in the grid. Heroes.
I would like to see a paleontologist.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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hollus wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 11:21 am
I want to propose an alternative narrative:
Lewis is called to the pits at the same time as in reality, but he is 0.3 seconds faster in his in lap, or his mechanics are 0.3 seconds faster.
He comes out side by side with Gasly but holds on in front of him. A lap later, Vettel comes out of the pits just behind Lewis as he could push.
The cars in front stay out of the pits and 5 laps later there is a safety car. Everyone pits and Lewis emerges in second after a flexible, aggressive strategy from his team finds the only opportunity to limit damage from 7th in the grid. Heroes.
There are a few ifs and buts there, (safety car is a huge one) but essentially the key point is that between Hamilton, the Mercedes strategists and and the pit stop crew, they just did not find or manufacture enough time to jump Gasly in the pits, which is on each of them, and that was the key.

But on such fine margins are races won and lost. I was AMAZED there was no safety car or VSC in the whole race.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 11:28 am
hollus wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 11:21 am
I want to propose an alternative narrative:
Lewis is called to the pits at the same time as in reality, but he is 0.3 seconds faster in his in lap, or his mechanics are 0.3 seconds faster.
He comes out side by side with Gasly but holds on in front of him. A lap later, Vettel comes out of the pits just behind Lewis as he could push.
The cars in front stay out of the pits and 5 laps later there is a safety car. Everyone pits and Lewis emerges in second after a flexible, aggressive strategy from his team finds the only opportunity to limit damage from 7th in the grid. Heroes.
There are a few ifs and buts there, (safety car is a huge one) but essentially the key point is that between Hamilton, the Mercedes strategists and and the pit stop crew, they just did not find or manufacture enough time to jump Gasly in the pits, which is on each of them, and that was the key.

But on such fine margins are races won and lost. I was AMAZED there was no safety car or VSC in the whole race.
Even the pit stop was rapid for the Merc boys, 2.2 seconds I believe. I can't remember the last time they beat that time.
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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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NathanOlder wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 12:37 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 11:28 am
hollus wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 11:21 am
I want to propose an alternative narrative:
Lewis is called to the pits at the same time as in reality, but he is 0.3 seconds faster in his in lap, or his mechanics are 0.3 seconds faster.
He comes out side by side with Gasly but holds on in front of him. A lap later, Vettel comes out of the pits just behind Lewis as he could push.
The cars in front stay out of the pits and 5 laps later there is a safety car. Everyone pits and Lewis emerges in second after a flexible, aggressive strategy from his team finds the only opportunity to limit damage from 7th in the grid. Heroes.
There are a few ifs and buts there, (safety car is a huge one) but essentially the key point is that between Hamilton, the Mercedes strategists and and the pit stop crew, they just did not find or manufacture enough time to jump Gasly in the pits, which is on each of them, and that was the key.

But on such fine margins are races won and lost. I was AMAZED there was no safety car or VSC in the whole race.
Even the pit stop was rapid for the Merc boys, 2.2 seconds I believe. I can't remember the last time they beat that time.
Then you have to say it's on Hamilton and/or the strategists. Maybe they didn't pick the optimum time to bring him in, and maybe he wasn't able to do the lap they required of him to make it work.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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The tyre warm-up was just slow. It's obvious.
The same as in qualifying but worse because its the hard tyre.

When has there ever been a Mercedes on fresh tyres, unable to undercut an Alfa Tauri? Almost never!

The team jumped the gun. They should have analysed another car on those tyres first before they made the move.
The just screwed up is all. In fact. I can't remember many undercuts happening!
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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 1:26 pm
The tyre warm-up was just slow. It's obvious.
The same as in qualifying but worse because its the hard tyre.

When has there ever been a Mercedes on fresh tyres, unable to undercut an Alfa Tauri? Almost never!

The team jumped the gun. They should have analysed another car on those tyres first before they made the move.
The just screwed up is all. In fact. I can't remember many undercuts happening!
Absolutely agree. They should have waited for Gasly to pit. But maybe they were more worried about Perez and Vettel jumping them from behind the longer they waited. However that ended up happening anyway. Sometimes it's like it is in blackjack. (apt for Monaco) You just have to accept you have a hand that can't win, no matter what.

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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 8:35 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 7:36 pm
Diesel wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 1:14 pm


I've watched all of the interviews for balance, and overall his tone is that as a team they didn't perform this weekend, and he is quite clearly including his own performance in that statement. The "questions" from Dutch TV are obviously trying to provoke a response and they are absolutely about drama, that's what they want as it makes for good TV. The first few questions aren't even questions, just statements about how bad Hamilton's weekend has been, if that's not creating drama what is? They were trying to ruffle his feathers, and they succeeded it seems.

But hey, if you want to take some fairly short answers he provided in response to an interview from Dutch TV (the nationality of his rival) which was clearly intended to provoke a response from him and turn it in to a narrative of "not a team player", go for it :wtf:

I would say Lewis certainly got a taste of his own medicine, he was making some fairly silly comments in the media during the weekend clearly trying to play some mind games with Max. After having a disaster of a weekend, very quickly it's all turned back on him.
His answers are very short in general on some weekends when he's off. I completely get Lewis being unable to take losing. I am like that in life as well. But, I stick to my guns about him being needlessly critical of the team that has done a lot for him. And if one media house "of his rival" is getting under his skin, Lewis has had an army on his side with multiple houses of his nationality hounding all his rivals for 15 years. I don't think there's anything to it with all this nationality stuff. It was just Lewis on his customary weekends where he feels everything in the world is against him. Most of it as you say is his doing. Not the first time he's gone about passing trivial remarks about a rival.
No other driver praises their team like Lewis. No other.
Funny coming from a Vettel fan. Even Charley Whiting was not spared in the tantrums Vettel used to have.
Seb has never gone about bad mouthing his team and even if he has, it doesn't make what Lewis did right. This is not the first episode of Hamilton meltdowns. Didn't he put out telemetry data on twitter once?

Learn to be tolerant of others opinions even if it doesn't appreciate someone you support. Praising the team when you are winning everything is one thing and behaving like a petty child and throwing tantrums when it goes south is another. The team was not driving the car in qualifying. The other driver was on course for pole! Is that also Mercedes' fault? Let's assume that Mercedes chose the wrong set up for him. That same Mercedes team has won him 75+ races!! Or are you one of those who are going to compliment Lewis for those wins and blame Mercedes for those he didn't win?

You win and lose as a team. Grow up!
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

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RZS10
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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It's amusing that a driver complaining on radio without even swearing, answering a few questions brusquely and openly but mildly criticizing his team is being seen as a "meltdown" , "throwing a tantrum" or "bad mouthing his team" ... what?

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dans79
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 2:05 pm
You win and lose as a team. Grow up!
You also need to apportion blame when appropriate, because if you don't people don't learn anything.

That's why in a lot of organizations determining root cause is very important, they need to determine what the problem was, if it was caused by an individual, and what needs to be done to fix it!
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JPower
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 2:05 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 8:35 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 7:36 pm


His answers are very short in general on some weekends when he's off. I completely get Lewis being unable to take losing. I am like that in life as well. But, I stick to my guns about him being needlessly critical of the team that has done a lot for him. And if one media house "of his rival" is getting under his skin, Lewis has had an army on his side with multiple houses of his nationality hounding all his rivals for 15 years. I don't think there's anything to it with all this nationality stuff. It was just Lewis on his customary weekends where he feels everything in the world is against him. Most of it as you say is his doing. Not the first time he's gone about passing trivial remarks about a rival.
No other driver praises their team like Lewis. No other.
Funny coming from a Vettel fan. Even Charley Whiting was not spared in the tantrums Vettel used to have.
Seb has never gone about bad mouthing his team and even if he has, it doesn't make what Lewis did right. This is not the first episode of Hamilton meltdowns. Didn't he put out telemetry data on twitter once?

Learn to be tolerant of others opinions even if it doesn't appreciate someone you support. Praising the team when you are winning everything is one thing and behaving like a petty child and throwing tantrums when it goes south is another. The team was not driving the car in qualifying. The other driver was on course for pole! Is that also Mercedes' fault? Let's assume that Mercedes chose the wrong set up for him. That same Mercedes team has won him 75+ races!! Or are you one of those who are going to compliment Lewis for those wins and blame Mercedes for those he didn't win?

You win and lose as a team. Grow up!
You exposed yourself by saying “ That same Mercedes team has won him 75+ races!! ”.

No one won Lewis Hamilton those races.

I find it almost impossible to believe that Lewis shouldn’t be able to express himself especially on a day when things aren’t going right. Its bullshit.

Everyone on the team is an adult. If their feelings were hurt over a frustrated driver’s extremely mild complaints then they shouldn’t be working in any pressure situations.

There are more than a few great drivers in history and still on the grid that would’ve laden the airwaves with so many curses we wouldn’t be able to hear a normal word on air.

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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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RZS10 wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 2:13 pm
It's amusing that a driver complaining on radio without even swearing, answering a few questions brusquely and openly but mildly criticizing his team is being seen as a "meltdown" , "throwing a tantrum" or "bad mouthing his team" ... what?
The standards for Lewis’s behavior are impossible. I follow many different sports and I can’t think of anyone else that gets criticized for comments as mild as Lewis’s.

Maybe its because I’m American. What he said wouldn’t have registered a blip over here.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 2:05 pm

Seb has never gone about bad mouthing his team and even if he has, it doesn't make what Lewis did right. This is not the first episode of Hamilton meltdowns. Didn't he put out telemetry data on twitter once?

Learn to be tolerant of others opinions even if it doesn't appreciate someone you support. Praising the team when you are winning everything is one thing and behaving like a petty child and throwing tantrums when it goes south is another. The team was not driving the car in qualifying. The other driver was on course for pole! Is that also Mercedes' fault? Let's assume that Mercedes chose the wrong set up for him. That same Mercedes team has won him 75+ races!! Or are you one of those who are going to compliment Lewis for those wins and blame Mercedes for those he didn't win?

You win and lose as a team. Grow up!
You made a storm in a tea cup because i dont see how Lewis bad mouthed his team? If he didnt say anything about that crapshow, it's then i would be worried about Lewis! :)

He is a seven time world champion with nearly fifteen years of experience! :) He knows when the team has messed up and when to show leadership. He clearly identified the problems, he never laid blame on any one individual and he said the team will work together to find root cause to make sure the problems don't happen again. That is strength. That is galvanizing his team. That is leadership! That is awesome!! =D>. Keep doing ya thing Lewis! =D>

F1 fans should be appreciative when they see stuff like this; matters graciously handled from a veteran of the sport. I really don't see where any disrespect was shown. I think you might be blowing things out of proportion here.
Last edited by PlatinumZealot on Tue May 25, 2021 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dans79
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 2:59 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 2:05 pm

Seb has never gone about bad mouthing his team and even if he has, it doesn't make what Lewis did right. This is not the first episode of Hamilton meltdowns. Didn't he put out telemetry data on twitter once?

Learn to be tolerant of others opinions even if it doesn't appreciate someone you support. Praising the team when you are winning everything is one thing and behaving like a petty child and throwing tantrums when it goes south is another. The team was not driving the car in qualifying. The other driver was on course for pole! Is that also Mercedes' fault? Let's assume that Mercedes chose the wrong set up for him. That same Mercedes team has won him 75+ races!! Or are you one of those who are going to compliment Lewis for those wins and blame Mercedes for those he didn't win?

You win and lose as a team. Grow up!
You made a storm in a tea cup because i dont see how Lewis bad mouthed his team? If he didnt say anything about that crapshow, it's then i would be worried about Lewis! :)

He is a seven time world champion with nearly fifteen years of experience! :) He knows when the team has messed up and when to show leadership. He clearly stated the causes of the problems, he never laid blame on any one individual and he said the team will work together to find root cause to makw sure the problems don't happen again. That is strenght. That is galvanizing his team. That is peadership! That is awesome!! =D>. Keep doing ya thing Lewis! =D>

F1 fans should be respectful when they see stuff like this, graciously handled from a veteran of the sport. I really don't see where any disrespect was shown. I think you might be blowing things out of proportion here.
Yep

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aMessageToCharlie
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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Good weekend:
- "we win and we lose together"
- no blame culture
- great team, so grateful

Bad weekend:
- poor, very poor performance from the team
- radio silence after the race
- no learnings for me personally but for the team definitely


Talk is cheap. Take a page out of George Russell's book from Bahrain 2020 on how to "graciously" handle a complete Merc cock-up.