General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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Mogster
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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ispano6 wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:34 am
GhostF1 wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:15 am
ispano6 wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:12 am


Let's just say that just because it's released in the "public" domain doesn't mean that anyone has access to it. It is after all privileged information that can only be attained by having access to the publication by purchasing or subscribing to it. The documentary by NHK, for instance, is not allowed to be broadcast or reproduced outside of Japan. There is an inherent naivety on the part of the Japanese to think that no one outside of Japan is interested or paying attention - the galapagos effect - which is certainly a trait (good or bad) on the part of the Japanese. Personally I'm of the opinion that Honda should stay quiet and not allow these articles or documentaries to reveal their innovations, but then it wouldn't be the Honda that everyone expects and respects.
I love your contributions mate. It's always really appreciated. But to be honest, it's naive to think "no one else purchased the publications". I am living proof of that...

Aside from types like us and this forum, you can bet some media high profiles with a huge interest like Craig Scarborough or Sam Collins etc, not to mention those in known media outlets, would of spent the small fee on that publication. I'd go so far as to say they aren't doing their job if they didn't.

The information Honda have released might seem like a lot and I see plenty of people expressing surprise, but it's still very superficial stuff. All the really special, fine details are all left out. Sure, tell us you've moved the camshafts closer together to aid packaging and change combustion chamber shape. Tell us you have an experimental new coating that's unlocked your ICE's limit, tell us you've made vast improvements to the Turbo to compensate for ICE efficiency gain, tell us you made a breakthrough with the MGU-H, it's cross-block shaft and it's balancing, tell us you've found big gains in your battery development in Milton Keynes and tell us you've got a unique combustion concept.

This is all extremely exciting stuff to hear and it gives me great satisfaction waking up in the morning to see a new article regarding Honda. And it's something no other manufacturer really does with sharing this, but at the same time they are giving us next to no detail whatsoever, well not enough that would be very useful to rivals or something that risks exposing their concepts. So I wouldn't call the Japanese naive, they aren't sharing their IP. All of it is clear they err on the side of caution with what they share, but this also lets them publicly celebrate the engineering prowess they've displayed. Honda has done a huge justice for the V6 Hybrids. Celebrating the majesty that they are in a way that no other manufacturer on the field has and doing so very publicly while acknowledging the excellence of their engineers. Kudos from me.
I get what you're saying. I'm not saying that no one else is purchasing the Japanese publications. These are publications that do not have English versions published. So even as you say those like Craig Scarborough and Sam Collins are purchasing the Japanese language publications such as AS-web, they are via print or PDF only, and unless you have the high quality PDFs or the magazines scanned and a sophisticated image to text translation software, they are having people read the articles and manually translating them, as there are no English versions available. I felt a great deal of reservation writing about the things written in the publications, and honestly some details aren't as superficial as you might think. I can accept that it's reflective of their confidence in their technology and when I say the naivety of the Japanese I'm not talking about Honda - that is a comment with regard to NHK and As-web!

Also, if you're able to find the March NHK documentary on Kumamoto plating and know of where it can be re-watched I'd like to know. The only article I read was the Q&A of Asaki during the press conference but I seemed to have lost my recording of the documentary and wanted to look up some names mentioned in it.
When the F1 engine suppliers are spending close to $500m pa on engine development I find it incomprehensible that they don’t have at least a small team devoted to data gathering on the other suppliers. They must have surely. In that case you think anything that’s in the public domain, even if you need a magazine or cable subscription… would be vacuumed up.

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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Yamamoto and Tanabe need to change their footwear, both perform a synchronized front tumble :lol:

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nzjrs
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Snorked wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:44 pm
Yamamoto and Tanabe need to change their footwear, both perform a synchronized front tumble :lol:
Haha the same goofy idiot RB mechanic knocks over both of the architects of RB-Honda success! Have some respect for the elderly buddy.

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Wouter
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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nzjrs wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:48 pm
Snorked wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:44 pm
Yamamoto and Tanabe need to change their footwear, both perform a synchronized front tumble :lol:
.
Haha the same goofy idiot RB mechanic knocks over both of the architects of RB-Honda success! Have some respect for the elderly buddy.
That "same goofy idiot RB mechanic" is Bradley Scanes, Max his personal trainer. :)
Last edited by Wouter on Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Power of Honda!

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nzjrs
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Haha, he is too fit and got too good start off the line. No space to overtake and hit the back of the two cars ahead!!!

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ispano6
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Mogster wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:39 am

When the F1 engine suppliers are spending close to $500m pa on engine development I find it incomprehensible that they don’t have at least a small team devoted to data gathering on the other suppliers. They must have surely. In that case you think anything that’s in the public domain, even if you need a magazine or cable subscription… would be vacuumed up.
Sure, you would need to purchase that information or watch the documentary and have someone translate it. It isn't free, someone is being paid to do it as part of their job. A competitor would of course need to know of such publications or a particular issue in which potentially valuable information or insight is mentioned. I wouldn't be surprised if Honda looked into oil burning, TJI, and whatever else technologies were being employed to see how they could make their variants. Honda would go on to develop their own solutions and materials to solve the performance and reliability issues and if it's a novel solution, other manufacturers would be keen to learn what it is and how it was developed. Whether or not these information should be revealed by Honda and RedBull racing is one matter, but their confidence in doing so speaks volumes. They are attributing their progress to their staff and partners such as ExxonMobil and recognizing their contributions. Sure other teams are doing so but I personally don't read about what Ferrari and Renault are doing, they seem more secretive, though admittedly I don't really go out looking for such info.

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ispano6
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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nzjrs wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:32 pm
Haha, he is too fit and got too good start off the line. No space to overtake and hit the back of the two cars ahead!!!
Please don't hurt Tanabe, he is too important! Yamamoto is more a PR guy, so not as mission critical haha.

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Wouter
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Image

https://honda.racing/f1/post/styrian-gp-race-setup

StyrianGP Race Setup

Red Bull Racing Honda and Scuderia AlphaTauri Honda return to the Styrian hills for more back-to-back weekends of racing at the home of the Bulls.

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Toyoharu Tanabe
Honda Racing F1

In France last Sunday, Max took a brilliant win, with all four of our cars performing well and now we are now in Austria for a double-header, something we already tackled last year at this track. The Red Bull Ring provides a beautiful mountain setting and the track features many changes of gradient. It’s a really nice circuit, one of the shortest of the year, with just ten corners, most of them high speed and it is the shortest in terms of lap time. This is a home race for Red Bull and it is special for all of us, as it was here in 2019 that Honda secured its first win of the hybrid era, again with Max, so we have good memories. It means everyone is very motivated to get the best possible result this weekend. We come here off the back of three consecutive wins and it is encouraging that we won at a conventional race track like Paul Ricard, as well as at the two street circuits prior to that. The nature of this track means it usually produces exciting racing and, as our rivals are still very strong, we can expect a very close fight in qualifying and the race.
The Power of Honda!

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Wouter
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P1, P5, P6 and P8 for the 4 Honda drivers! =D>



The Power of Honda!

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Wouter
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1991 >>> 2021

The last time Honda power took to the top step four times in a row

Image..Image

Image..Image
The Power of Honda!

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Wouter
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Honda put an end to controversial suggestions from Mercedes

However, Honda has dismissed all those rumors from the Mercedes camp as inaccurate. F1 director Toyoharu Tanabe told the media in Austria: "I'm very happy if it's true, but it's not true."

“Under current regulations, it is not allowed to apply performance updates during the season. As a result, our second PU is the same as the first PU in terms of specification and performance. Under the current engine rules, we must report any changes to the FIA. You can only change for reliability or financial reasons or logistics, and then we have to submit very detailed information to the FIA ​​first. They must first allow it to adjust."

“The FIA ​​distributes all the documents to the other engine suppliers, so we need approval from the other manufacturers to change the specifications of individual parts. The reason we do such a very detailed research is that a long time ago some teams improved their performance by making a change to improve reliability. So we are very careful to improve the performance and adapt the engine for that. It is not possible to improve performance during the season. That's my response to that suggestions and rumors from Mercedes."
The Power of Honda!

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etusch
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Wouter wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:57 am
Honda put an end to controversial suggestions from Mercedes

However, Honda has dismissed all those rumors from the Mercedes camp as inaccurate. F1 director Toyoharu Tanabe told the media in Austria: "I'm very happy if it's true, but it's not true."

“Under current regulations, it is not allowed to apply performance updates during the season. As a result, our second PU is the same as the first PU in terms of specification and performance. Under the current engine rules, we must report any changes to the FIA. You can only change for reliability or financial reasons or logistics, and then we have to submit very detailed information to the FIA ​​first. They must first allow it to adjust."

“The FIA ​​distributes all the documents to the other engine suppliers, so we need approval from the other manufacturers to change the specifications of individual parts. The reason we do such a very detailed research is that a long time ago some teams improved their performance by making a change to improve reliability. So we are very careful to improve the performance and adapt the engine for that. It is not possible to improve performance during the season. That's my response to that suggestions and rumors from Mercedes."
I don't thik cry baby and his liar boss don't know about how things go on with their own pu which I suspect never been a legal pu.
But it is not that important, the important thing is honda still pushing with what they has.
Tanabe says that any progress that others have seen from the Honda engine is recent races is simply the result of it better deploying its energy management systems to maximise lap time.

“We have been learning gradually how to use the PU,” he explained. “We improve our weakness, and then we push our strengths.

“As a result, the base specification, the performance, is the same, but trackside performance I believe we have been improving.”

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Wouter
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Twitter: Max Verstappen @Max33Verstappen
P1 It was a bit too close for comfort, as it wasn't a perfect session, but good enough to get us pole.
This one is dedicated to the Orange Army, super to see you back at the track .
Let's make it something to remember tomorrow 🧡 #KeepPushing[/quote]

Image

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The Power of Honda!

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ispano6
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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I love seeing Tanabe-san up there!

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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Honda showing some 1988 dominant form =D>

Honda and Max would both have 5 in a row if it wasn't for Pirelli :x