Red Bull RB16B

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
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Sieper
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Joined: 14 Mar 2017, 15:19

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Just_a_fan wrote:
10 Jul 2021, 22:10
Sieper wrote:
06 Jul 2021, 20:06
Making parts doesn’t really cost budget. You pay for your staff, materials, facility and overhead. All are more or less already paid for. So just make use of the capacity as much as you can.
Every part you make requires materials both for the part itself and for molds required. And there is wastage of materials e.g. off cuts that can't be used elsewhere. If those parts are additional to the ones you budgeted for then the material has to be bought. Any time spent making those parts can't be used to make other parts - a technician can only do one thing at a time. So there is materials budget and manpower budget. To say that making parts doesn't cost budget is strange, I must say.
You are just disagreeing for the sake of it now. I am just saying that if you wouldn’t make any part at all most of the costs would be incurred anyway. Salary, overhead, equipment, building etc. The only real difference between making use of your capacity or not is the actual material. That isn’t the main part, it is a fraction. The real limitation is how much capacity you do have, on all the mentioned aspects.

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Chuckjr
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Joined: 24 Feb 2012, 08:34
Location: USA

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Morteza wrote:
24 Jun 2021, 20:22
Nicolas Carpentiers wrote:On the RB16B, Red Bull has now extended the serrated trailing edge to the full lenght of the diffuser flap (not only in the corners). It seems to be made of carbon.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4qYJwsX0AU ... ame=medium

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4t8lhYWYAE ... ame=medium

Scarbs wrote:Developments on Red Bull diffuser. The metal steak knife sections are now much wider, with a third serrated trailing edge added in the middle.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4qma9zWUAI ... name=large
Can someone explain the aerodynamic reason for the serrated edges, please?
Thank you.
Watching F1 since 1986.

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mclaren111
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Re: Red Bull RB16B

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TNTHead
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Location: The Netherlands

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Chuckjr wrote:
11 Jul 2021, 09:02
Morteza wrote:
24 Jun 2021, 20:22
Nicolas Carpentiers wrote:On the RB16B, Red Bull has now extended the serrated trailing edge to the full lenght of the diffuser flap (not only in the corners). It seems to be made of carbon.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4qYJwsX0AU ... ame=medium

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4t8lhYWYAE ... ame=medium

Scarbs wrote:Developments on Red Bull diffuser. The metal steak knife sections are now much wider, with a third serrated trailing edge added in the middle.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4qma9zWUAI ... name=large
Can someone explain the aerodynamic reason for the serrated edges, please?
Thank you.
I am no aerodynamist but know from windturbine blade design that a serrated edge influences the trailing edge turbulence (which lowers turbulence intensity and thereby lowerering noise emission). I suspect that by lowering the trailing edge turbulence you can reduce drag, or may be even increase the low pressure region, which benefits the diffusor.
Last edited by TNTHead on 12 Jul 2021, 13:29, edited 1 time in total.

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godlameroso
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Location: Miami FL

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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TNTHead wrote:
11 Jul 2021, 13:50
Chuckjr wrote:
11 Jul 2021, 09:02
Can someone explain the aerodynamic reason for the serrated edges, please?
Thank you.
I am no aerodynamist but know from windturbine blade design that a serrated edge influences the trailing edge turbulence (which lowers turbulence intensity and thereby lowerering noise emission). I suspect that by lowering the teailing edge turbulence you can reduce drag, or may be even increase the low pressure region, which benefits the diffusor.
How does the air just ahead of the diffuser interact with the upwash caused by the part with the serrated flap?
Saishū kōnā

PhillipM
PhillipM
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Joined: 16 May 2011, 15:18
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Chuckjr wrote:
11 Jul 2021, 09:02
Can someone explain the aerodynamic reason for the serrated edges, please?
Thank you.
Helps keep the airflow attached in critical situations when you're pushing the camber/AoA to the limit

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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godlameroso wrote:
11 Jul 2021, 20:11
TNTHead wrote:
11 Jul 2021, 13:50
Chuckjr wrote:
11 Jul 2021, 09:02


Can someone explain the aerodynamic reason for the serrated edges, please?
Thank you.
I am no aerodynamist but know from windturbine blade design that a serrated edge influences the trailing edge turbulence (which lowers turbulence intensity and thereby lowerering noise emission). I suspect that by lowering the teailing edge turbulence you can reduce drag, or may be even increase the low pressure region, which benefits the diffusor.
How does the air just ahead of the diffuser interact with the upwash caused by the part with the serrated flap?
In this area, you should focus on the flow expansion and acceleration rather than upwash, outwash, etc. They don't care where it's going as long as it's expanding. The expansion causes the flow in the diffuser to accelerate. The knock on effect is an acceleration of the the flow just ahead of the diffuser. The diffuser's job is simply to accelerate the airflow under the flat floor which generates the bulk of the floor downforce.
Last edited by AR3-GP on 12 Jul 2021, 05:21, edited 1 time in total.

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GOAT
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Joined: 10 May 2021, 17:40

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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PhillipM wrote:
11 Jul 2021, 23:34
Chuckjr wrote:
11 Jul 2021, 09:02
Can someone explain the aerodynamic reason for the serrated edges, please?
Thank you.
Helps keep the airflow attached…
… because of the increased contact surface area.

In layman’s term, there is more carbon to interact with the airflow.

:wink:

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diffuser
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Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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GOAT wrote:
12 Jul 2021, 01:25
PhillipM wrote:
11 Jul 2021, 23:34
Chuckjr wrote:
11 Jul 2021, 09:02
Can someone explain the aerodynamic reason for the serrated edges, please?
Thank you.
Helps keep the airflow attached…
… because of the increased contact surface area.

In layman’s term, there is more carbon to interact with the airflow.

:wink:
I think it's to create vertices to reduce drag.

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Chuckjr
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Joined: 24 Feb 2012, 08:34
Location: USA

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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diffuser wrote:
12 Jul 2021, 03:50
GOAT wrote:
12 Jul 2021, 01:25
PhillipM wrote:
11 Jul 2021, 23:34


Helps keep the airflow attached…
… because of the increased contact surface area.

In layman’s term, there is more carbon to interact with the airflow.

:wink:
I think it's to create vertices to reduce drag.
Do they cause more air disruption for a car that’s following? It would seem a host of vortices pouring off the back of the car would wreak havoc for the following car. Is this an “defensive” type of aero in addition to drag reduction?
Watching F1 since 1986.

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mclaren111
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Joined: 06 Apr 2014, 10:49
Location: Shithole - South Africa

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Image


Really nice angle of FW...

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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mclaren111 wrote:
12 Jul 2021, 12:49
https://i.ibb.co/16WGg0V/rb.jpg


Really nice angle of FW...
I'm guessing that they're working the Y250 area harder to make the vortex stronger. It's also adding some front downforce.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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Sieper
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Joined: 14 Mar 2017, 15:19

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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To me it indeed looks like a sort of a tunnel, look how also the front wing planes now line up with the rear side of that bulge.

PhillipM
PhillipM
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Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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GOAT wrote:
12 Jul 2021, 01:25

Helps keep the airflow attached…
… because of the increased contact surface area.

In layman’s term, there is more carbon to interact with the airflow.

:wink:
No, because it energises the airstream and stops it detaching as harshly. It's a trade off of local efficiency/drag for total, and keeping things more predicable with airflow/rideheight changes

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diffuser
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Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Chuckjr wrote:
12 Jul 2021, 07:30
diffuser wrote:
12 Jul 2021, 03:50
GOAT wrote:
12 Jul 2021, 01:25


… because of the increased contact surface area.

In layman’s term, there is more carbon to interact with the airflow.

:wink:
I think it's to create vertices to reduce drag.
Do they cause more air disruption for a car that’s following? It would seem a host of vortices pouring off the back of the car would wreak havoc for the following car. Is this an “defensive” type of aero in addition to drag reduction?
They just spin like mini tornadoes. Like the little flip up on plane wings. They also reduce drag.