2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 - 18

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Ryar
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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TimW wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:46 am
Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:30 am
..... I read Shovlin's report that without the red flag, Lewis would DNF so may be we need to have a rule where the people causing the red flag cannot touch the car.
And what if someone has damage through no fault of his own?

Sometimes people are lucky, sometimes not. All part of the game

Edit: sorry, missed the part 'causing the red flag'. But that would be some weird kind of extra penalty, and you would need to wait on the stewards ruling.
In fact, no one should touch their car in red flag. No exceptions. It should be treated like safety car running. Good in some cases, bad in some. Lot of times, when a car hits from behind, there is little impact to the car that hit, but much bigger impact to the the car that got hit. Even in red flag, the rear of the car is difficult to repair whereas its easy replacement for front wing.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:30 am
I think hopefully there will be some common sense on this forum at least going forward.

For me, Max is okay. That's what matters.

If I am to isolate the incident, Lewis is for me the clear cut culprit. I personally would never give any penalty for it though. It was a racing incident with Lewis getting most of the blame. However, with stakes so high, the sport should certainly look at the fact that this could decide the WDC and Lewis winning it because of this result where he shunted his main rival would be something I am not interested in as a fan. It is just wrong. And I am not talking about reversing results or stupid race bans but just to learn from this episode as a sport. I read Shovlin's report that without the red flag, Lewis would DNF so may be we need to have a rule where the people causing the red flag cannot touch the car.

Ten races done, Max still leads by 7 where he has made 0 mistakes while his rival has made plenty and been completely off colour in certain races while he's been on it every single session. If he can keep this up, he will still mount a decent fight for the championship. Lewis' attitude this season is clearly back to his early days of cockiness and arrogance. May be, all of it was a facade in the first place. Very disrespectful behaviour all around.
Max had 33 points to protect? Did he not?

Lewis doesn't have the faster car now so he is back to swashbuckling and playing it in the grey areas. The reall Lewis (pre 2013). He actually reminds me much of Schumacher more and more each race but not as "calculatingly merciless" as the great one was.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Ryar wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:01 pm
TimW wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:46 am
Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:30 am
..... I read Shovlin's report that without the red flag, Lewis would DNF so may be we need to have a rule where the people causing the red flag cannot touch the car.
And what if someone has damage through no fault of his own?

Sometimes people are lucky, sometimes not. All part of the game

Edit: sorry, missed the part 'causing the red flag'. But that would be some weird kind of extra penalty, and you would need to wait on the stewards ruling.
In fact, no one should touch their car in red flag. No exceptions. It should be treated like safety car running. Good in some cases, bad in some. Lot of times, when a car hits from behind, there is little impact to the car that hit, but much bigger impact to the the car that got hit. Even in red flag, the rear of the car is difficult to repair whereas its easy replacement for front wing.
Rubbish. Look at the history of what usually causes redflags and the environment and aftermath of that. Debris stuck in brake ducts. Ripped tyres. Broken rims. Bent wings. Cracked side pods. Even a radiator change I have seen one time. Why would you want a potentially dangerous car like that to continue racing after a redflag incident?

It is safety why this is done. You would an absolute madman to not allow parts changes in a redflag.
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Ryar
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:14 pm
Ryar wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:01 pm
TimW wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:46 am

And what if someone has damage through no fault of his own?

Sometimes people are lucky, sometimes not. All part of the game

Edit: sorry, missed the part 'causing the red flag'. But that would be some weird kind of extra penalty, and you would need to wait on the stewards ruling.
In fact, no one should touch their car in red flag. No exceptions. It should be treated like safety car running. Good in some cases, bad in some. Lot of times, when a car hits from behind, there is little impact to the car that hit, but much bigger impact to the the car that got hit. Even in red flag, the rear of the car is difficult to repair whereas its easy replacement for front wing.
Rubbish. Look at the history of what usually causes redflags and the environment and aftermath of that. Debris stuck in brake ducts. Ripped tyres. Broken rims. Bent wings. Cracked side pods. Even a radiator change I have seen one time. Why would you want a potentially dangerous car like that to continue racing after a redflag incident?

It is safety why this is done. You would an absolute madman to not allow parts changes in a redflag.
Calm down. If a car is unraceable and is potentially dangerous, it should retire. It's that simple.
Hakuna Matata!

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kenshi_blind
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:30 am
I think hopefully there will be some common sense on this forum at least going forward.

For me, Max is okay. That's what matters.

If I am to isolate the incident, Lewis is for me the clear cut culprit. I personally would never give any penalty for it though. It was a racing incident with Lewis getting most of the blame. However, with stakes so high, the sport should certainly look at the fact that this could decide the WDC and Lewis winning it because of this result where he shunted his main rival would be something I am not interested in as a fan. It is just wrong. And I am not talking about reversing results or stupid race bans but just to learn from this episode as a sport. I read Shovlin's report that without the red flag, Lewis would DNF so may be we need to have a rule where the people causing the red flag cannot touch the car.

Ten races done, Max still leads by 7 where he has made 0 mistakes while his rival has made plenty and been completely off colour in certain races while he's been on it every single session. If he can keep this up, he will still mount a decent fight for the championship. Lewis' attitude this season is clearly back to his early days of cockiness and arrogance. May be, all of it was a facade in the first place. Very disrespectful behaviour all around.
I completely disagree with your assessment
first of all Hamilton did not shunt him , he earned the right to take the corner , Max should have taken a wide trajectory (he had way more than enough room) it's that simple
Second of all Max has an history to lunge / dive bomb and expect the other drivers just to yield , it was inevitable that at some point, this tactic of his would not work
Barcelona comes to mind . he had no right to do what he did and that action would have ended their race if Lewis did no avoid the collision and went out of the track .
Fixing cars under Red flag is a safety rule first and foremost , whether you agree with it or not now that your favorite driver is affected is irrelevant
Lastly Max has made 0 mistakes ? really ???? and Lewis is cocky ? come on .. sometimes you guys just over do it .. is this an alternate reality or something ?

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Horner has become the less reliable source in the paddock by far. He´ll say whatever stupidity wich support his team or driver, it´s amazing he does not even get embarrased for the loads of BS he´s able to say.

Any journalist is more reliable, and this is not a praise to journalists, my opinion of them is quite poor

ab_f1
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Just a thought while considering the argument that Lewis wouldn't have made the corner.

Let's assume in alternate reality Max does not turn in and takes a wider line. Lewis considering above argument does not makes the corner. The accident still happens but given this the whole blame goes to Lewis.
Now coming back to current situation, given Max did turn in, doesn't that puts responsibility of crash on him as well.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Ryar wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:26 am
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:17 am
Ryar wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:02 am
British GP stewards ruled that Hamilton was responsible for the incident, but the punishment was extremely lenient. Besides, he ruined Max's race and improved his own championship chances and has induced millions in car damages. It makes a good enough reason for taking the fight out of track for Red Bull.
On the contrary, I think it's silly, extremely OTT, and opens a very dangerous can of worms for the future of the sport.
Masi mentioned that the penalty system doesn't take into account the impact of the incident, which is such a critical aspect in racing. If the governing body doesn't recognize this and if it need to forced by teams to incorporate it, it's actually a good thing for the sport. The governing system need to improve and FIA doesn't recognize it themselves. The penalties have been farsicical at best and they are afraid of charging penalties to the top teams. Race stewards have been erratic and inconsistent and to that effect, an external force being applied should move the sport in the right direction.
Yes- as it shouldn't. An extremely small touch can create a big incident and a very big touch can create next to no incident. You have to look at ONLY the contact, which on this occasion was nothing out of the ordinary at all. It was just unfortunate that it led to a spectacular incident. In another race a similar touch will lead to nothing.

Funny how this has not been a problem at all until yesterday.

An external force will not lead the sport into the right direction. It'll lead to untold litigation with teams forever claiming someone else owes them the money for a new wishbone or front wing. All the teams agreed to the terms of the salary cap. It's extremely petulant to then turn round and demand changes just as soon as it affects you. I didn't see Marko expressing any concern over Mercedes' repair bill after the Imola accident, or anyone else's repair bill for that matter.

Bottom line is that the teams know full well what to expect when they go racing and accept the risks of motorsport. Accidents happen, cars can get written off and need replacing, drivers can unfortunately get hurt sometimes. All the drivers have big accidents from time to time. Some their own fault, some someone else's fault, some no-one's fault. There have been plenty of far bigger and far more clumsy accidents than this which have garnered nowhere near the level of hysteria.

If you start billing/suing teams for damage to cars and banning drivers or demanding giving them ridiculous penalties when they touch, then no one is going to try and overtake anyone for fear of consequences and there's no more racing. They might as well just do it all against each other on simulators.

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popovic94
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Short memory :roll:
"Whoever you are, no matter what social position you have, rich or poor, always show great strength and determination, and always do everything with much love and deep faith in God. One day you will reach your goal." Ayrton Senna

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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popovic94 wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:19 pm
Short memory :roll:
=D> =D>

Argument Done!!

Lets go guys. Pack it up!
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SiLo
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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popovic94 wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:19 pm
Short memory :roll:
In practice as well XD

Honestly Max is an aggressive and unyielding driver and it's finally bitten him.
Felipe Baby!

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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SiLo wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:35 pm
popovic94 wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:19 pm
Short memory :roll:
In practice as well XD

Honestly Max is an aggressive and unyielding driver and it's finally bitten him.
Image

Not quite the same, but at the point of contact, Lance left Max room.
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kenshi_blind
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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It is the same in the context whereby Lewis was alongside in in the breaking zone and was entitled to take the corner the same way max felt he was on this footage . and that was during FP mind you

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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:14 pm
Ryar wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:01 pm
TimW wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:46 am

And what if someone has damage through no fault of his own?

Sometimes people are lucky, sometimes not. All part of the game

Edit: sorry, missed the part 'causing the red flag'. But that would be some weird kind of extra penalty, and you would need to wait on the stewards ruling.
In fact, no one should touch their car in red flag. No exceptions. It should be treated like safety car running. Good in some cases, bad in some. Lot of times, when a car hits from behind, there is little impact to the car that hit, but much bigger impact to the the car that got hit. Even in red flag, the rear of the car is difficult to repair whereas its easy replacement for front wing.
Rubbish. Look at the history of what usually causes redflags and the environment and aftermath of that. Debris stuck in brake ducts. Ripped tyres. Broken rims. Bent wings. Cracked side pods. Even a radiator change I have seen one time. Why would you want a potentially dangerous car like that to continue racing after a redflag incident?

It is safety why this is done. You would an absolute madman to not allow parts changes in a redflag.
But this time RF allowed dangerous car to continue racing and ultimately win the race #-o

This is the 3rd time this season that Hamilton directly profited from RF!

Why was the red flag necessary? Couldn't the damage be repaired with SC!?

Why Mercedes change their mind and didn't box Lewis? Did they receive information that there will be a red flag?!

Is race director going to decide the championship!? Did he do that already!?

Jolle
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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sosic2121 wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:04 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:14 pm
Ryar wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:01 pm
In fact, no one should touch their car in red flag. No exceptions. It should be treated like safety car running. Good in some cases, bad in some. Lot of times, when a car hits from behind, there is little impact to the car that hit, but much bigger impact to the the car that got hit. Even in red flag, the rear of the car is difficult to repair whereas its easy replacement for front wing.
Rubbish. Look at the history of what usually causes redflags and the environment and aftermath of that. Debris stuck in brake ducts. Ripped tyres. Broken rims. Bent wings. Cracked side pods. Even a radiator change I have seen one time. Why would you want a potentially dangerous car like that to continue racing after a redflag incident?

It is safety why this is done. You would an absolute madman to not allow parts changes in a redflag.
But this time RF allowed dangerous car to continue racing and ultimately win the race #-o

This is the 3rd time this season that Hamilton directly profited from RF!

Why was the red flag necessary? Couldn't the damage be repaired with SC!?

Why Mercedes change their mind and didn't box Lewis? Did they receive information that there will be a red flag?!

Is race director going to decide the championship!? Did he do that already!?
What if you started with answering your own questions. this tactic I see more and more "just asking questions" is not helping.