2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 - 18

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dans79
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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carisi2k wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:11 am
Many of you on here should know that club is not a corner you go in to side by side. It is a flat out corner if you are on the correct line or otherwise you have to lift or brake to make the corner. You are either ahead or behind in that corner and considering that Lewis was never ahead of Max the incident is 100% his responsibility. This is not a racing incident, especially at these speeds and especially when the result is one car is totally written off with the driver being sent to hospital for checks because of a 51G impact while the other driver gets away with it and only receives a 10 second penalty.
Umm, the incident was in Corpse. Not to mention neither of them was on the optimum line. The optimum line is substantially further left, over a cars with further left than where Max was when he started turning in. You want your left wheels on the white line if you want to carry maximum speed through the turn.
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ispano6
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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This forum went downhill when Mercedes started to lose their dominance. Now that RedBull Honda is a real threat, lots of people have gone on the defensive here.

Hoffman900
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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ispano6 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:34 am
This forum went downhill when Mercedes started to lose their dominance. Now that RedBull Honda is a real threat, lots of people have gone on the defensive here.
No they’re not.

They’re pointing out all the fallacies in Horner / Max’s / Marko’s statements, and using their past statements to blow holes in their current arguments.

What they are doing isn’t technical or sportive. It’s politicking.

LaplacesDemon
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Hoffman900 wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:27 pm
I doubt many of them read any of the threads anymore and yeah, either a good laugh or completely horrified.
I can assure you some of them do.
Both a good laugh and completely horrifying!
Last edited by LaplacesDemon on Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

selvam_e2002
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Big Tea wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:23 pm
yener wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:29 pm
Im still realky frustrated. I read somewhere that Lewis was going to give Max a call to make sure he is oke, but he also told he is not going to make any apoligizes. This makes it even worse!

This forum is also read by a lot of f1 staff and sometimes i hope that the drivers also visit just to read some opinions.
I would like to say to Max and the RBR team, dont pick up the phone and ignore Lewis. Even if you are 100+ ahead in the WC standing, dont accept them celebrating you, dont shake hands, dont spray champain and let them not spray on you.
Even if you win the WC dont let LH come to celebrate you. Please Max, show some dignity and character!
Bad plan. Max is young enough to want to change teams at some time, and if Merc is up as an option, having burned bridges with Toto could mean a move is not on or if on, uncomfortable.
Besides, its sport not war, and I always find myself talking sensibly to my wife even if neither of us has apologised, and I have been married a long time now
Max burned bridges with,
1. Ferrari
2. Renault
now
3. Mercedes

Poor kid never learns from mistakes. as you said it is a sport not a war zone.

Don't know where he will be once he kicked out from RB.... You cannot drive for a team for whole life. If some young blood their, the RB/horner/marco shift their interest to that....

Long way to learn things...... for Max..... don't be next Alonso... even Alonso won 2WCC but you nothing yet....

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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carisi2k wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:11 am
Many of you on here should know that club is not a corner you go in to side by side. It is a flat out corner if you are on the correct line or otherwise you have to lift or brake to make the corner. You are either ahead or behind in that corner and considering that Lewis was never ahead of Max the incident is 100% his responsibility. This is not a racing incident, especially at these speeds and especially when the result is one car is totally written off with the driver being sent to hospital for checks because of a 51G impact while the other driver gets away with it and only receives a 10 second penalty.
Plenty of overtakes have been carried out at Copse Corner (Club is the slow corner between Vale and the start line straight). Don't fall for Horner's histrionics about no one overtaking there. Also, the 51g impact thing is also irrelevant and just more of Horner's histrionics.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

e30ernest
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Polarit wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:37 pm
Alonso's comments perfectly illustrate the rationale that an experienced driver has and one that I often think is lost with the obsession with racing lines and calculation's on who specifically had the corner.

Hamilton did well and got his car alongside Verstappen going into a turn. Regardless of lines, hitting the apex and corner angle the car was is there. It's a problem and being the car on the outside once it's there you have to adjust what you do.

Verstappen see's him when he goes to turn in, then adjusts, then turns fully into the corner with full knowledge Lewis is there. He might've hoped Lewis would brake harder but he took the risk knowing he was there. Hamilton at this point is pulling out of the move knowing they're going to collide but it's too late and because he pulls out it's why it's front left to rear right.

It's a racing incident and a poor judgement on Max's part to defend like that given the championship situation.

Much like for years Hamilton has treated Verstappen with a wide berth because he wasn't fighting that fight, Verstappen should've been wise enough to not fight a driver who has to win so strongly when he had such a lead.

Great race though....
“It is difficult from the outside,” said Alonso. “It looked quite close, Lewis had more than half a car alongside Max.

“So, in a way, Lewis could not disappear from the inside line, it’s not that you can vanish.
https://the-race.com/formula-1/alonso-h ... pen-clash/
Coming in here late to avoid all the anger immediately after the race, but I fully agree with this. Jolyon also pretty much said the same thing, and the same with Karun.

I have a feeling that if it weren't the 2 championship contenders, this would have been deemed a racing incident. The Grosjean - Sainz crash was good precedent on this being ruled as a racing incident too.

The gloves are off now. I can't wait for the next race!

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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ispano6 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:34 am
This forum went downhill when Mercedes started to lose their dominance. Now that RedBull Honda is a real threat, lots of people have gone on the defensive here.
Stop trying to insult forum members. You do your arguments no favours by such behaviour.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Juzh
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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ispano6 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:34 am
This forum went downhill when Mercedes started to lose their dominance. Now that RedBull Honda is a real threat, lots of people have gone on the defensive here.
They can't fathom their precious team and driver could possibly lose a championship in the next 100 years so they're shell shocked from the whole experience of competition this year.

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nzjrs
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:34 am
Plenty of overtakes have been carried out at Copse Corner (Club is the slow corner between Vale and the start line straight). Don't fall for Horner's histrionics about no one overtaking there. Also, the 51g impact thing is also irrelevant and just more of Horner's histrionics.
You really hate Horner, it's somewhat entertaining.

In any case, he said "you don't stick a wheel up the inside" which is not the same as "no overtaking" (obviously).

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Ryar
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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This confirms that Hamilton carried too much speed into that corner. Though he braked approximately 20-25 mtrs earlier than Max, he simply was carrying too much speed to make the corner clean.

Image

Image from his qualifying lap, carrying exact same speed, here he could make the corner clean because of the racing line trajectory.
Image

This is the image from race. Based on telemetry, he carries same exact speed as quali lap but a completely compromised trajectory. I don't know how people think he could have made the corner clean, without understeering and hitting Max.

Image
Hakuna Matata!

Jolle
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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nzjrs wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:42 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:34 am
Plenty of overtakes have been carried out at Copse Corner (Club is the slow corner between Vale and the start line straight). Don't fall for Horner's histrionics about no one overtaking there. Also, the 51g impact thing is also irrelevant and just more of Horner's histrionics.
You really hate Horner, it's somewhat entertaining.

In any case, he said "you don't stick a wheel up the inside" which is not the same as "no overtaking" (obviously).
It’s one thing to protect your driver, it’s another to attack your competitor.

It’s the ongoing narrative that when Verstappen does it, it’s brilliant (look at Horners comments on the Spain opening lap), keeping his mouth shut when a competitor tells that Verstappen refused to apologise for a big error (Grosjean, Monaco) but on the same time asks for actions and stuff when another driver does it to him.

It’s low. It are disrespectful tactics.

Today’s Dutch papers and sites are running the story that Marko/RedBull are lawyering up.

It’s right out of the populist playbook. Accuse someone of your own behaviour, build the narratieve that you are a victim and an angel, ask questions but don’t discuss, promise that you have data without ever sharing it, threaten to sue. Forgetting something?

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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nzjrs wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:42 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:34 am
Plenty of overtakes have been carried out at Copse Corner (Club is the slow corner between Vale and the start line straight). Don't fall for Horner's histrionics about no one overtaking there. Also, the 51g impact thing is also irrelevant and just more of Horner's histrionics.
You really hate Horner, it's somewhat entertaining.

In any case, he said "you don't stick a wheel up the inside" which is not the same as "no overtaking" (obviously).
I dislike the histrionics. It was showboating to try to get a different outcome.

Hamilton was all but entirely alongside Max as they entered the corner phase. He's alongside enough at turn in for the front of his car to visible in Max's onboard video, his front end ahead of Max's head and thus vision line (although the high cockpit sides make this more difficult than the old days, of course). We know Max saw Lewis because Max turned in with Lewis along side him, opened the wheel and then turned in again all whilst his head is angled towards the right of the car and thus his vision was to the right.

Very much not "sticking a wheel up the inside" as Horner's histrionics claimed.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Ryar
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:58 am
nzjrs wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:42 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:34 am
Plenty of overtakes have been carried out at Copse Corner (Club is the slow corner between Vale and the start line straight). Don't fall for Horner's histrionics about no one overtaking there. Also, the 51g impact thing is also irrelevant and just more of Horner's histrionics.
You really hate Horner, it's somewhat entertaining.

In any case, he said "you don't stick a wheel up the inside" which is not the same as "no overtaking" (obviously).
I dislike the histrionics. It was showboating to try to get a different outcome.

Hamilton was all but entirely alongside Max as they entered the corner phase. He's alongside enough at turn in for the front of his car to visible in Max's onboard video, his front end ahead of Max's head and thus vision line (although the high cockpit sides make this more difficult than the old days, of course). We know Max saw Lewis because Max turned in with Lewis along side him, opened the wheel and then turned in again all whilst his head is angled towards the right of the car and thus his vision was to the right.

Very much not "sticking a wheel up the inside" as Horner's histrionics claimed.
Stewards thought otherwise. Isn't it?
Hakuna Matata!

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Ryar wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:48 am


This is the image from race. Based on telemetry, he carries same exact speed as quali lap but a completely compromised trajectory. I don't know how people think he could have made the corner clean, without understeering and hitting Max.

https://i.imgur.com/VsdxfRH.jpeg
But that's not his line on corner entry because Max moved left and Hamilton did too. HIs entry line was further to the left.

If he didn't make the corner then he'd have run wide and Max would have had the place back - because Hamilton would have to give it back. In fact, just as happened in turn 1 where Max ran wide and then chopped across Hamilton to stay P1 when he should have given the place up.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"