Mercedes W12

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
mkay
mkay
10
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 8:30 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

Post

atanatizante wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:53 pm
Is it me or we didn`t look at the big picture:

https://postimages.org/

It`s not the high rake we`ve seen at RB but due to their longer wheelbase they don`t need that angle to achieve the same volume under the diffuser

It`ll be nice to see a side-by-side comparison between the two teams high rakes and these updates must correlate with the changed rake, don`t they?
Haven't Merc had this since the beginning of the season-ish?

It does look to me like they're running slightly more rake than at the beginning of the season.

Marble
Marble
23
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:30 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

Post

Before the Silverstone package, the only upgrades Merc brought were at Imola, correct (apart from specific wings for circuit like Baku) ?

Marty_Y
Marty_Y
21
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:37 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

Post

Can someone please find some pictures of the rear wing the W11 used at Silverstone last year to compare with the rear wing used by the W12 at Silverstone this year.

I know it's not a very scientific method to judge, but a side by side comparison could give a rough idea of how much down force they've managed to claw back with the latest update.

dans79
dans79
381
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: Mercedes W12

Post

Marty_Y wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:00 pm
Can someone please find some pictures of the rear wing the W11 used at Silverstone last year to compare with the rear wing used by the W12 at Silverstone this year.
I don't know of any side by sides, but here are some posts from the w11 thread that will help you out.

viewtopic.php?p=914166#p914166

viewtopic.php?p=915520#p915520

viewtopic.php?p=916028#p916028

viewtopic.php?p=916391#p916391

viewtopic.php?p=917711#p917711
172 100 99 7

User avatar
SiLo
123
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

Post

Image
This was the one they ran last year. Seems even bigger than this year.
Felipe Baby!

CLKGTR
CLKGTR
92
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

Post

Direct comparison

Image

zibby43
zibby43
653
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: Mercedes W12

Post

According to the Merc engineers, with the upgraded car, their simulations finally pointed toward a lower downforce configuration as the fastest/best option.

Whereas, pre-upgrade, the sims had always favored packing on extra downforce and larger rear wings.

zibby43
zibby43
653
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: Mercedes W12

Post

Mercedes rake angle at speed; Silverstone. (Photo credit: Joel Spencer on Flickr)

Without a doubt the highest rake angle Merc have run in the hybrid era. Used to seeing the WXX chassis very neutral at speed.

Image

User avatar
Morteza
2578
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:23 pm
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: Mercedes W12

Post

Some more comparison shots of the updated W12 vs the old configuration
Image

Image
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

Marty_Y
Marty_Y
21
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:37 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

Post

Some analysis and explanation of the updates, pictured in the post above ^

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/the-f ... p/6634074/

And although the characteristics of Silverstone were going to help its chances, key to progress was a much talked about upgrade that had been in the pipeline for a while.

While Red Bull had been pretty aggressive by bringing regular smaller updates, Mercedes had been biding its time to bring something more major at once.

The upgrade focused on the central portion of the car and claws away at some of the aerodynamic issues raised by the 2021 regulation changes.

Rather than incrementally chipping away at these issues, as others have, Mercedes has faced them head-on with one all-encompassing upgrade package.

Here we take an in-depth look at all the changes.



The skyscraper deflector has been shortened, allowing all of the slats in the Venetian blind-like array to be extended forward, increasing their influence on the airflow.

The main skyscraper deflector has been split into two sections, removing the arc that had previously framed the sidepod's shoulder and instead offering two surfaces with which to create vortices.

The sidepod wing now features a design seen almost everywhere else on the grid, with an upward curving tip altering the course and vorticity of the airflow.

It's an interesting U-turn considering that it went down this route with a similar upgrade package for the Japanese Grand Prix in 2019 but reverted to the framed solution for 2020.

There's been numerous changes at this juncture, with not only the first wave in the 'wavy' floor arrangement softened.. The skyscraper deflector now connects to the floor across its entire width, while a third 'r' shaped vane has been deployed.

A dipped section in the floor scroll replaces the deeper wave, while the shape of the flap support has also been altered.

Having shorn the scrolled edge of the floor back, the aerodynamicists have filled that volume with a secondary flap.

The majority of the grid now have angled fins in this position between the sidepod and floor in some form or another, with Mercedes adding four fins to their arsenal, as they look to guide the airflow that's peeling off.

A little further downstream another four fins have been added too, their angle and shape slightly different from those ahead


https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... cNicu.html

Mark Hughes examines the upgrades Mercedes brought to the 2021 British Grand Prix, where Lewis Hamilton took an eighth Silverstone F1 victory to claw back some vital ground in the title fight with Max Verstappen.

Mercedes switched off their 2021 wind tunnel programme some races ago and devoted it entirely to the 2022 car. But the last pieces of that limited ‘21 tunnel programme were only manufactured and ready to go onto the car in time for the British Grand Prix.

They comprised a totally reworked bargeboard area around the front corner of the floor, a reprofiled floor edge and re-angled deflectors.

The exact geometry changes of the vanes and latticework can be seen in the drawing, but the crucial thing is what they are seeking to achieve. They represent a slight shift in emphasis between the underfloor airflow and that going around the sidepods to eventually meet up with the underfloor flow as it exits through the diffuser.

There is a finite amount of air hitting the car to work with and achieving the most efficient trade-off between directing it beneath and around the floor is at the heart of what the aerodynamicists are striving for.

Mercedes appear to be seeking to extract air from the front corner of the floor, inducing a lower pressure there, which can energise the whole floor, especially if the extracted air is retrained into the flow around the sidepods effectively so as to give more energy to that flow as it meets that which is exiting the diffuser.

The Mercedes’ underfloor is limited in how hard it can suck the car to the ground by its relatively shallow angle compared to a high-rake car. These latest changes seek to offset that effect as far as possible.

It’s difficult to judge how effective they were as the circuit layout is so different to that of the previous races in Austria. Although the Mercedes was the fastest qualifier at Silverstone, that may have owed a lot to the fact that the session was held in the coolest conditions of the weekend when the Red Bull’s front tyres were struggling to quickly reach their optimum temperature.

In all other running, on a track temperature high enough to banish the Red Bull’s tyre problems, the RB16B looked quicker.

But the latest changes will certainly have played their part in Mercedes’ decision to go with a relatively low rear-wing level here. In Austria they were running more wing than Red Bull.

In Silverstone they were running less wing (above). Was this just a reflection on the differing optimum drag/downforce trade-offs between two very different cars on two very different tracks? Or an indication that the Merc’s latest tweaks have allowed them to run the run the car more efficiently?

The picture will build over the forthcoming races. But it’s clear that Mercedes’ last squeeze of the ’21 lemon has delivered at least some juice.

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
527
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Mercedes W12

Post

Yes. They copied RedBulls the little vertical vanes on the floor at the base of the sidepods. Seems to be working.
.. OG.. OG.. OG.. OG..

User avatar
SiLo
123
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

Post

Considering how long it took teams to get on top of the high rake concept, I think they have done incredible well to raise the rake off the car so much.
Felipe Baby!

e30ernest
e30ernest
26
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:47 am

Re: Mercedes W12

Post

SiLo wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:35 am
Considering how long it took teams to get on top of the high rake concept, I think they have done incredible well to raise the rake off the car so much.
I wouldn't be surprised if they knew how to, but didn't bother before to go with a high rake concept. They would have studied RB and Ferrari in detail so they have a good grasp on the concept.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
749
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

Post

e30ernest wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:38 am
SiLo wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:35 am
Considering how long it took teams to get on top of the high rake concept, I think they have done incredible well to raise the rake off the car so much.
I wouldn't be surprised if they knew how to, but didn't bother before to go with a high rake concept. They would have studied RB and Ferrari in detail so they have a good grasp on the concept.
The teams were quoted as saying that they looked at going high rake previously but that they couldn't get it to work with their overall aero concept. With the changes to the rear floor and adjacent parts this year, maybe it has been easier to make a bit more rake work for them - assuming they have increased the rake at all.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

DarthPlagueisTheVise
DarthPlagueisTheVise
46
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:10 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

Post

Does anyone know how they get the readings from the tyre temperature sensor on the front wing ?
I thought it was wired to the center of the car but they can change the front wing and still get the readings off the sensor. Is it wireless or am I missing something
The sensor I am talking about
Image
Technical Noob