Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Roostfactor
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ispano6 wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:38 pm
Honda’s Sakura facility will supply Red Bull F1 engines in 2022

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... 24608/amp/
Red Bull will continue to receive its Formula 1 power units from outgoing partner Honda’s Sakura facility in 2022 as part of a “transitionary year” for the team.
Following Honda’s decision to quit F1 at the end of the 2021 season, Red Bull announced in February that it would be forming Red Bull Powertrains, taking on the IP of the existing Honda power units and bringing its production in house.

Red Bull has been working to expand its existing campus in Milton Keynes to incorporate a new engine facility, with its engines set to be badged as Red Bull from next year.

But it has been revealed that Honda’s Sakura facility will remain responsible for the assembly of the Red Bull engines next year.

“Yes, Red Bull and Honda have been working on that project, and then how to proceed in that transition for next year,” said Honda F1 technical director Toyoharu Tanabe.

“I cannot tell the detail, but generally we are going to a good direction and then we should prepare well for next year. So now we are working very hard, I am working very hard at the trackside.”

“We’re just finalising the detail of that,” added Red Bull F1 boss Christian Horner.

“Obviously as we gear ourselves up within Red Bull Powertrains, ’22 will be a transitionary year.

“So we’re working with Honda to have a soft landing where the engines will be continued to be assembled in Sakura in 2022, before that process is being taken on in our new facility in time for 2023.”

Horner confirmed that Red Bull would become entirely self-sufficient with the existing power unit from 2023, but would be “waiting with interest to see what comes out from the engine discussion for 2025 or even 2026.”

A crunch meeting between current F1 stakeholders and interesting manufacturers over the next generation of engines will take place on Saturday in Austria, with Red Bull outlining its hopes for a “clean sheet” approach.

Honda’s exit from F1 at the end of the year could come after the Japanese manufacturer wins a first world title since 1991, with Red Bull currently leading both championships.

Tanabe said while he did personally regret the decision to quit given Honda’s current form, nothing would change regardless of the championship result.

“Personally, yes but regardless the result of this year’s championship or our result, I think Honda’s decision has been not changed from their previous one,” Tanabe said.

“It means leaving Formula 1.”
It's great to know a Honda PU will be beating as the heart of the Red Bull car for 2022. Tost makes an interesting remark regarding Honda's departure after such a successful run in this year's campaign in that it serves Honda's marketing campaign to stay, but in truth the operations at American Honda do very little to shed any light on Honda F1s success that it seems at odds with the US executives. It kind of underscores Honda Racing's purpose as pure racers and their pursuit of innovation and technology. And that makes it's fans a very special group of Honda ambassadors.
I hope Honda gets to use its badging for 22 considering they are designing AND assembling the engine next year.

NL_Fer
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I wonder how much “Assembly” we will ever see in the UK. Probably Sakura will pre-assemble the blocks for a long time.

Lock2nl
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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NL_Fer wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:37 pm
I wonder how much “Assembly” we will ever see in the UK. Probably Sakura will pre-assemble the blocks for a long time.
That is exactly what I expect. It would not surprise me at all if in 2026 with 100% eco fuels Honda will return to Red Bull.

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Zynerji
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I expect there to be a "tribute" Honda badge on the nose of the RB17 and AT03.

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Sieper
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Next years car will be the RB18. RB16B has replaced RB17 this year.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

NL_Fer
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Zynerji wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:37 pm
I expect there to be a "tribute" Honda badge on the nose of the RB17 and AT03.
I doubt it. It is mainly a marketing decision not to present themselves as a F1 investor. But behind the curtain there will be continuous development for any 2025/26 options to return and to support Redbull Powertrain.

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Zynerji
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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NL_Fer wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:50 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:37 pm
I expect there to be a "tribute" Honda badge on the nose of the RB17 and AT03.
I doubt it. It is mainly a marketing decision not to present themselves as a F1 investor. But behind the curtain there will be continuous development for any 2025/26 options to return and to support Redbull Powertrain.
So, in effect, RedBull Powertrains is the new Tag Heuer?😂😂

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Craigy
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Zynerji wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:24 pm
NL_Fer wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:50 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:37 pm
I expect there to be a "tribute" Honda badge on the nose of the RB17 and AT03.
I doubt it. It is mainly a marketing decision not to present themselves as a F1 investor. But behind the curtain there will be continuous development for any 2025/26 options to return and to support Redbull Powertrain.
So, in effect, RedBull Powertrains is the new Tag Heuer?😂😂
Redbull Powertrain has been hiring actual engineers to go in their actual building with their actual dynos. It's not myth.
I'm not saying Honda will have no involvement going forward at all (I've no idea about that) but there is definitely an RBR investment going into a motor program onsite in MK.

Alexf1
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Does anyone know if Mercedes turned the engine up or Honda down last weekend? Or if Mercedes have a stronger lap 1 map? Mercedes overspeed in lap 1 was enormous. Straight after straight Hamilton almost overtook Verstappen with no DRS. Flashbacks to 2019 Ferrari.. Little less wing on the Mercedes doesn't fully explain it I think.

dxpetrov
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Lewis had a tow from Bottas, and RB ran more rear wing than Mercs.

Hoffman900
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Alexf1 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:22 pm
Does anyone know if Mercedes turned the engine up or Honda down last weekend? Or if Mercedes have a stronger lap 1 map? Mercedes overspeed in lap 1 was enormous. Straight after straight Hamilton almost overtook Verstappen with no DRS. Flashbacks to 2019 Ferrari.. Little less wing on the Mercedes doesn't fully explain it I think.
Suspected new floor gave them back some downforce they lost with the new regs, so they were able to trim out the rear ring relative to what they were doing.

Doing this likely allows them to re-evaluate their deployment strategy.

So in Merc’s case, less drag and moving the power curve around relative to what they were doing before.

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hollus
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Agreed, that one was on topic here, but barely. It would have been better suited for the Mercedes PU thread as the answer was likely to be “Mercedes did XYZ”.
Please keep mercedes talk to a minimum here.
¡Puxa Esportin!

Hoffman900
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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On topic, has anyone attempted to plot what the power curves look like of the PU from GPS data?

Relative units are a bit meaningless, but the curves might be insightful. We all know what a dyno curve looks like for an IC engine, but I have a feeling the curves look pretty unique, and vary depending where on the track they are.

N21
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Does anyone know to what extent Max’ 2nd engine can be serviced / repaired by Honda? Is the complete PU sealed or can it be serviced? Apart from the possible obvious component swaps and their respective grid penalties

Hoffman900
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There is enough data set over the course of all the races to do what I am asking.

It could even be the last generation for that matter.

I’m more interested in the shape of the curve than absolute units of these engines as oppose to the pre-hybrid era engines.