Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
PhillipM
PhillipM
424
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 2:18 pm
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

GP bikes don't tend to have huge G-force impacts tbh, they tend to skip and roll through the gravel and slow down much more gradually.

Jolle
Jolle
255
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

PhillipM wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:50 pm
GP bikes don't tend to have huge G-force impacts tbh, they tend to skip and roll through the gravel and slow down much more gradually.
true, but when they hit the fence, with high forces, normally the engine is still usable (they also can only use a couple of engines per season).

Hoffman900
Hoffman900
69
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:02 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

I don’t think you really understand what I am saying or what is happening in a 51g + impact.

MotoGP bikes rarely if ever see anywhere near that gforce. If they do, they usually rupture the tank and burn up, in addition to be entirely destroyed.

Also, MotoGP bikes see at most half the g forces a F1 car sees on tracks.

If someone can point me to a 51g bike impact where the engine was salvageable, then please share. “High forces” tells me nothing.

The issue with the block flexing is they are strong in the planes that the car puts forces into it while racing. Not a sideways / backwards 51g + shunt.

Jolle
Jolle
255
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

Hoffman900 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:08 pm
I don’t think you really understand what I am saying or what is happening in a 51g + impact.

MotoGP bikes rarely if ever see anywhere near that gforce. If they do, they usually rupture the tank and burn up, in addition to be entirely destroyed.

Also, MotoGP bikes see at most half the g forces a F1 car sees on tracks.

If someone can point me to a 51g bike impact where the engine was salvageable, then please share. “High forces” tells me nothing.

The issue with the block flexing is they are strong in the planes that the car puts forces into it while racing. Not a sideways / backwards 51g + shunt.
yes you're right, in my mind they are into the walls more then I thought, guess my mind is still in old style :P

User avatar
AMG.Tzan
34
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:35 am
Location: Greece

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

I can't really think that after a 51G crash everything has has survived! :shock:

The engine can survive the crash but still what about the rest of the Power Unit (most notably MGU-K and maybe Battery Pack) and even the gearbox! I haven't heard anything about the gearbox tbh! What do you think?? Has it survived??
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

Hoffman900
Hoffman900
69
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:02 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

It depends. We should know by early next week.

Transmissions have the same issue with tolerance stacking internally in a crash. Though I believe they can replace that without incurring a penalty.

This stuff is pretty funny. You have a precise machine, spinning at thousands of revs, and give it a 51g jolt in any sort of weird plane. It’s hard to predict what’s going to happen.

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
531
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

The engine didn't take a direct hit to the tyre wall so I think it should be OK. Mostly side impact so it may not have seen the full 51g.
. . . . . .. .... ..

Jolle
Jolle
255
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

Wondering, with all the forces going on in a PU, and the vibrations, hitting curbs with the floor… isn’t 51G peanuts?

Hoffman900
Hoffman900
69
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:02 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:18 pm
Wondering, with all the forces going on in a PU, and the vibrations, hitting curbs with the floor… isn’t 51G peanuts?
It isn’t.

The forces are very well controlled in the direction they are designed to handle, hard to say in a hit.

As I said, hits can be a crap shoot. I’ve seem cars go into the wall and something like the rear differential is fine, the same car with a hard bump draft breaks the ears off the rear diff.

Jolle
Jolle
255
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

Hoffman900 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:31 pm
Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:18 pm
Wondering, with all the forces going on in a PU, and the vibrations, hitting curbs with the floor… isn’t 51G peanuts?
It isn’t.

The forces are very well controlled in the direction they are designed to handle, hard to say in a hit.

As I said, hits can be a crap shoot. I’ve seem cars go into the wall and something like the rear differential is fine, the same car with a hard bump draft breaks the ears off the rear diff.
I mean, because it's designed to be a stressed member, and not as in a road car, mounted in rubber.

User avatar
Juzh
572
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

AMG.Tzan wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:31 pm
I can't really think that after a 51G crash everything has has survived! :shock:

The engine can survive the crash but still what about the rest of the Power Unit (most notably MGU-K and maybe Battery Pack) and even the gearbox! I haven't heard anything about the gearbox tbh! What do you think?? Has it survived??
Gearbox can be replaced without penalty if you DNF. It's the main reason you'll see teams who are out of the points randomly retire cars with few laps to go with no apparent issues.

sosic2121
sosic2121
17
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

Hoffman900 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:08 pm
I don’t think you really understand what I am saying or what is happening in a 51g + impact.

MotoGP bikes rarely if ever see anywhere near that gforce. If they do, they usually rupture the tank and burn up, in addition to be entirely destroyed.

Also, MotoGP bikes see at most half the g forces a F1 car sees on tracks.

If someone can point me to a 51g bike impact where the engine was salvageable, then please share. “High forces” tells me nothing.

The issue with the block flexing is they are strong in the planes that the car puts forces into it while racing. Not a sideways / backwards 51g + shunt.
Anyone knows if Vinales engine survived that crash on Red Bull ring? He commented that he was worried about the engine, but I don't know what happened with it later.

User avatar
etusch
201
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: Turkey

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

Vinales engine big probably took direct hit during that crash more than one

anthonyfa18
anthonyfa18
26
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:03 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

It look like max pu will be replaced for the race as honda has found a new crack on it overnight, but According to Red Bull it look like it can be fixed back in Japan

Pany
Pany
-13
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:26 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

With 3rd engine so soon, the title is flying away. Mercedes is repeating what they did to ferrrari starting from summer. New upgrades, super engine turned on and final superiority