Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
PhillipM
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Joined: 16 May 2011, 15:18
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GP bikes don't tend to have huge G-force impacts tbh, they tend to skip and roll through the gravel and slow down much more gradually.

Jolle
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Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PhillipM wrote:
23 Jul 2021, 18:50
GP bikes don't tend to have huge G-force impacts tbh, they tend to skip and roll through the gravel and slow down much more gradually.
true, but when they hit the fence, with high forces, normally the engine is still usable (they also can only use a couple of engines per season).

Hoffman900
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Joined: 13 Oct 2019, 03:02

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I don’t think you really understand what I am saying or what is happening in a 51g + impact.

MotoGP bikes rarely if ever see anywhere near that gforce. If they do, they usually rupture the tank and burn up, in addition to be entirely destroyed.

Also, MotoGP bikes see at most half the g forces a F1 car sees on tracks.

If someone can point me to a 51g bike impact where the engine was salvageable, then please share. “High forces” tells me nothing.

The issue with the block flexing is they are strong in the planes that the car puts forces into it while racing. Not a sideways / backwards 51g + shunt.

Jolle
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Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Hoffman900 wrote:
23 Jul 2021, 19:08
I don’t think you really understand what I am saying or what is happening in a 51g + impact.

MotoGP bikes rarely if ever see anywhere near that gforce. If they do, they usually rupture the tank and burn up, in addition to be entirely destroyed.

Also, MotoGP bikes see at most half the g forces a F1 car sees on tracks.

If someone can point me to a 51g bike impact where the engine was salvageable, then please share. “High forces” tells me nothing.

The issue with the block flexing is they are strong in the planes that the car puts forces into it while racing. Not a sideways / backwards 51g + shunt.
yes you're right, in my mind they are into the walls more then I thought, guess my mind is still in old style :P

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AMG.Tzan
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Joined: 24 Jan 2013, 01:35
Location: Greece
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I can't really think that after a 51G crash everything has has survived! :shock:

The engine can survive the crash but still what about the rest of the Power Unit (most notably MGU-K and maybe Battery Pack) and even the gearbox! I haven't heard anything about the gearbox tbh! What do you think?? Has it survived??
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

Hoffman900
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Joined: 13 Oct 2019, 03:02

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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It depends. We should know by early next week.

Transmissions have the same issue with tolerance stacking internally in a crash. Though I believe they can replace that without incurring a penalty.

This stuff is pretty funny. You have a precise machine, spinning at thousands of revs, and give it a 51g jolt in any sort of weird plane. It’s hard to predict what’s going to happen.

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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The engine didn't take a direct hit to the tyre wall so I think it should be OK. Mostly side impact so it may not have seen the full 51g.
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Jolle
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Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Wondering, with all the forces going on in a PU, and the vibrations, hitting curbs with the floor… isn’t 51G peanuts?

Hoffman900
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Joined: 13 Oct 2019, 03:02

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Jolle wrote:
23 Jul 2021, 23:18
Wondering, with all the forces going on in a PU, and the vibrations, hitting curbs with the floor… isn’t 51G peanuts?
It isn’t.

The forces are very well controlled in the direction they are designed to handle, hard to say in a hit.

As I said, hits can be a crap shoot. I’ve seem cars go into the wall and something like the rear differential is fine, the same car with a hard bump draft breaks the ears off the rear diff.

Jolle
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Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Hoffman900 wrote:
23 Jul 2021, 23:31
Jolle wrote:
23 Jul 2021, 23:18
Wondering, with all the forces going on in a PU, and the vibrations, hitting curbs with the floor… isn’t 51G peanuts?
It isn’t.

The forces are very well controlled in the direction they are designed to handle, hard to say in a hit.

As I said, hits can be a crap shoot. I’ve seem cars go into the wall and something like the rear differential is fine, the same car with a hard bump draft breaks the ears off the rear diff.
I mean, because it's designed to be a stressed member, and not as in a road car, mounted in rubber.

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Juzh
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Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
23 Jul 2021, 19:31
I can't really think that after a 51G crash everything has has survived! :shock:

The engine can survive the crash but still what about the rest of the Power Unit (most notably MGU-K and maybe Battery Pack) and even the gearbox! I haven't heard anything about the gearbox tbh! What do you think?? Has it survived??
Gearbox can be replaced without penalty if you DNF. It's the main reason you'll see teams who are out of the points randomly retire cars with few laps to go with no apparent issues.

sosic2121
13
Joined: 08 Jun 2016, 12:14

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Hoffman900 wrote:
23 Jul 2021, 19:08
I don’t think you really understand what I am saying or what is happening in a 51g + impact.

MotoGP bikes rarely if ever see anywhere near that gforce. If they do, they usually rupture the tank and burn up, in addition to be entirely destroyed.

Also, MotoGP bikes see at most half the g forces a F1 car sees on tracks.

If someone can point me to a 51g bike impact where the engine was salvageable, then please share. “High forces” tells me nothing.

The issue with the block flexing is they are strong in the planes that the car puts forces into it while racing. Not a sideways / backwards 51g + shunt.
Anyone knows if Vinales engine survived that crash on Red Bull ring? He commented that he was worried about the engine, but I don't know what happened with it later.

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etusch
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Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 23:09
Location: Turkey

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Vinales engine big probably took direct hit during that crash more than one

anthonyfa18
27
Joined: 12 Mar 2017, 17:03

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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It look like max pu will be replaced for the race as honda has found a new crack on it overnight, but According to Red Bull it look like it can be fixed back in Japan

Pany
3
Joined: 09 Mar 2016, 10:26

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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With 3rd engine so soon, the title is flying away. Mercedes is repeating what they did to ferrrari starting from summer. New upgrades, super engine turned on and final superiority