Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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El Scorchio
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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GTO99 wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:14 am
Why did Ham's left tire or suspension not fail considering impact with Max's rear wheel of greater mass & forward momentum? Is it because Ham's left wheels are loaded and Max's right wheels are less loaded?
Good question. I’d be interested to know this too. I suspect it’s just going to be blind luck though. His wheel rim was broken or cracked.

IMO It wasn’t THAT big a touch between the two cars so I was more surprised to see the amount of damage to Verstappen’s rear right with the tyre/rim failing quite so much.

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Big Tea
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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GTO99 wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:14 am
Why did Ham's left tire or suspension not fail considering impact with Max's rear wheel of greater mass & forward momentum? Is it because Ham's left wheels are loaded and Max's right wheels are less loaded?
It seems that what failed was a small band on the wheel rim that retains the tyre wall.
I asked at the time if the stiffer tyre and higher pressure had been (part of) the cause of this as I don't recall ever seeing it before. Usually its rubber to rubber not metal to metal
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PhillipM
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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I think that was mainly because it was a front touch of max's to the rear of hamiltons, then hamiltons wheel/tyre was just getting loaded more into the ground upon initial impact as Max's rear wheel tried to climb up it, the sudden jolt upwards is probably what broke Max's wheel.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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Max's wheel rim was machined off in the contact it seems - you can see the long circular strip of metal fly up in front of Hamilton immediately after the contact. It looks like swarf but it's a big piece.

Hamilton's wheel was damaged in the contact too, but by luck it didn't let go. The team said it would have been a DNF-causing failure later if the red flag hadn't been thrown out.
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RZS10
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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I remember reading that after further analysis they took back that statement and said the wheel would have made it through the first stint, i'll add the source once i find it again.

EDIT: Here's the article, it might just be clickbait garbage though.
Allison spricht von einer "gebrochenen oder fast gebrochenen Felge vorne links". Das entspricht der Ersteinschätzung von Mercedes direkt nach dem Zwischenfall. Erst bei der Nachuntersuchung des Hamilton-Fahrzeugs stellte sich heraus: Die Felge hatte zwar Kampfspuren davongetragen, hätte aber vermutlich den ersten Stint noch überstanden.
translates to:
Allison speaks of a "broken or almost broken left front rim". This corresponds to the initial assessment by Mercedes directly after the incident. It was only during the follow-up examination of Hamilton's car that it became clear that the rim had sustained battle marks, but would probably have survived the first stint.
No idea whether there's any truth to it, it's one of their typical articles which is loosly based on the debrief but i don't remember him saying anything like that in that video.

I posted those images in the race thread a mere 42 pages ago, they show two ring like parts flying away.
Image
Image

Wouldn't the main difference between Max' RR and Lewis' FL be that the tyre on the RR would be pushing against the 'retaining ring' laterally (what's the proper term for it? outer rim flange?) trying to hop off the rim anyways whilst the LF wouldn't?

It's like holding two angle grinders set to ~2k rpm against each other with opposite rotation and then pushing against the disc of one from the side.
Last edited by RZS10 on Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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GTO99 wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:14 am
Why did Ham's left tire or suspension not fail considering impact with Max's rear wheel of greater mass & forward momentum? Is it because Ham's left wheels are loaded and Max's right wheels are less loaded?
It was a side hit to Hamitlon' wheel. The rims of bothbdrivers spun against each other and Max's wheel rim looked to be the softer material as it machined it's self away. No rim.. No seat for the tyre.
. . . . . .. .... ..

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SiLo
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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I believe his wheel rim cracked, which was changed at the red flag.
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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It would have been a pitstop for Hamilton, not a DNF. But under a safety car, that’s pretty much no podium.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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Jolle wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:58 pm
It would have been a pitstop for Hamilton, not a DNF. But under a safety car, that’s pretty much no podium.
They only found the damage when they looked at the car under the red flag, don't forget, so it would have been DNF if it had failed on track. Bear in mind that they didn't pit under the safety car so they had no indication of the damage at that point.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Big Tea
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:36 pm
Jolle wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:58 pm
It would have been a pitstop for Hamilton, not a DNF. But under a safety car, that’s pretty much no podium.
They only found the damage when they looked at the car under the red flag, don't forget, so it would have been DNF if it had failed on track. Bear in mind that they didn't pit under the safety car so they had no indication of the damage at that point.
Saying that, but we have seen Hamilton drive on 3 wheels and get home safe.
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Jolle
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:36 pm
Jolle wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:58 pm
It would have been a pitstop for Hamilton, not a DNF. But under a safety car, that’s pretty much no podium.
They only found the damage when they looked at the car under the red flag, don't forget, so it would have been DNF if it had failed on track. Bear in mind that they didn't pit under the safety car so they had no indication of the damage at that point.
It was a pretty safe bet that it would have been a red flag. They had Bottas take a look if there was any damage that would have been a problem until such call was made. The replays that came with the rims machining each other made it a pretty spam dunk that Hamilton’s car would have a damage rim as well. Of course, they could have taken the chance and it could have failed instantly instead of a slow deflation. But, what I meant, the problem could have been adressed in a normal pitstop, unlike something like a wishbone failure or broken rear wing.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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Big Tea wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:40 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:36 pm
Jolle wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:58 pm
It would have been a pitstop for Hamilton, not a DNF. But under a safety car, that’s pretty much no podium.
They only found the damage when they looked at the car under the red flag, don't forget, so it would have been DNF if it had failed on track. Bear in mind that they didn't pit under the safety car so they had no indication of the damage at that point.
Saying that, but we have seen Hamilton drive on 3 wheels and get home safe.
On the last lap, not the first. :lol:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Big Tea
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:20 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:40 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:36 pm

They only found the damage when they looked at the car under the red flag, don't forget, so it would have been DNF if it had failed on track. Bear in mind that they didn't pit under the safety car so they had no indication of the damage at that point.
Saying that, but we have seen Hamilton drive on 3 wheels and get home safe.
On the last lap, not the first. :lol:
I did mean to get to the pit, not go on and win :mrgreen:
I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it-
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bluechris
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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Guys i don't know what you see here but i personally see 2 cars from Leclerc and Verstapen almost in the same position and another one from Hamilton that in Leclerc case is on apex correctly and in the case of Verstapen he is almost 2 meters from it.
He was correctly penalized imo and we can continue with our lives.

foxmulder_ms
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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bluechris wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:56 pm
Guys i don't know what you see here but i personally see 2 cars from Leclerc and Verstapen almost in the same position and another one from Hamilton that in Leclerc case is on apex correctly and in the case of Verstapen he is almost 2 meters from it.
He was correctly penalized imo and we can continue with our lives.
1) Hamilton does *not* need to be on the apex.
2) Racing line (as proven by qualifying laps) are not even on the apex at that point of the turn.
3) Hamilton is not closer to apex because Max pushed him towards the wall which made Ham's turn angle more acute.
4) Hamilton does not need to yield one mm in this incident since they are side by side before the turn.