2021 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 30 - Aug 01

[sosic2121]

Verstappen will be counting his lucky stars that Hamilton has failed to maximize the Christmas presents that have fallen his way.

Maybe. A more aggressive Hamilton vs Alonso could have easily yielded a DNF and zero points. You may prefer to bash Hamilton for not “disposing” an inferior and slower Alonso, but the risk vs award balance that Hamilton is going for is precisely why he is leading the championship vs Verstappen. In my book, Verstappens unlucky moments of Baku & Hungary are easily matched by Hamiltons magic button error in Baku and stratetic element in Hungary too - a race he should have easily won without having to battle Alonso in the first place.

The way he calculated his odds in UK and was impressive

[Jolle]

Alonso was never passing Sainz, didn’t have anywhere near enough overspeed. His mission was to stop Hamilton from reaching Ocon, and he did so brilliantly.


If Hamilton was on the right lines, he would have disposed of an Alpine with slower and older tyres right away instead of taking an eternity and ruining his own chances at victory.

Verstappen will be counting his lucky stars that Hamilton has failed to maximize the Christmas presents that have fallen his way. Baku and Hungary were the easiest 50 points imaginable. Hamilton missed an open goal on both occasions.

If not for some brake magic and some better racecraft against Alonso, Lewis would already be 40 points out of sight in this championship.

Same could be said for Max. If he hadn't fvcked up in Silverstone, that's a 32 point swing in just one race.

This statement couldn't have represented a fan's thought process Vs the official account of the facts any better.

Knowing when to back down wins you championships.

[Andres125sx]

Yeah, why start at 2014? How about 2007 when a rookie annoyed Alonso so much he got himself a grid demotion and the rookie went on to win the race...

That 2007 was the same year that the rookie took 6 poles and Alonso only 2, wasn't it? THe year the rookie got the same number of points as Alonso and finished higher in the title standings thanks to being favored by his own team
Or 2008 when Alonso was languishing in a relatively poor car having got himself ejected from the team du jour. Could have had a third title that year.

I have to admit to having a cheeky thought that what was really going through Alonso's head wasn't "I've got to help Ocon" but rather "this is for 2007, you bastard!"

I fixed it for you. No need to thank me, I know you will appreciate it

The FIA-official(s) who was present in the garage at all times, and I believe in the factory as well, would tell you otherwise

Actually, just the fact there were FIA-officials into McLaren box to ensure equal treatment proves the point. How many times in past 30 years have you seen FIA-officials into any box to ensure the team do not harm any of their drivers intentionally?

Obviously with the stewards into the pit McLaren didn´t do anything suspicious... but coincidentally in those GPs Alonso scored a lot more points than Hamilton


Anycase it´s fun how Hamilton fans feel the need to defend Lewis from this Hungarian 2021 GP. Calm down guys, he´s still one of the best and is the championship leader, only that he´s not the only awesome driver out there and some others like Alonso this time also deserve some praise for holding such a great driver like Hamilton back for some laps

[Fnatic1]

I am still a bit baffled how people justify HAM lead as being deserved.

He’s been lucky this season on several occasions, there’s no denying in that. Luck has only swung in one way so far.

Also, turning the Silverstone incident around is very easy to do if you’re biased and suddenly forget about sporting regulations.

Secondly the argument that Red Bull have had a much quicker car is nonsense. If the car was so dominant as some pretend it to be, Red Bull should be locking out the front row on every occasion / majority of the races.

[El Scorchio]

To try and get away from the same old boring conversation, how does Aston’s appeal actually work? Do they just get another chance to get all the fuel that they think is in there out of the car? It’s surely pretty black and white. Either it’s there or it isn’t.

What do they do? Take the engine and other components apart bit by bit in front of FIA officials, collect all the fuel and then measure it?

I don’t see any other way they can get it overturned. They surely can’t just argue ‘even though you couldn’t find it, we promise it’s definitely there.’

[DChemTech]

What is the point of going over all this again?
Some people believe Hamilton is a god, and are only happy when 100% of the population is convinced he is 100% infallible. Convictions that are held on the basis of belief are rarely affected by facts - so why bother discussing over and over?
Others seem convinced that when someone is theoretically in the right, he should stand ground. Sometimes it's better to do a bit of a rational calculation, though. If someone points a gun at you, you are better to back off if you have the chance. Sure, the other one may be 'in the wrong' if they shoot you, but that's not going to make you any less dead. And in this case, the person that had most to lose, lost most. Whether or not that's the 'righteous' outcome, it's practically what it is, and it may have been avoided by a bit rational decision making. Arguing that one should always stand ground is not going to change the outcome, so why bother discussing it over and over? (And, for that matter, in the wrong thread). I was massively disappointed too, but at some point it's just time to move on.

[dans79]

What is the point of going over all this again?
Some people believe Hamilton is a god, and are only happy when 100% of the population is convinced he is 100% infallible.

Actually, I think it's that deep down some people are starting to question if Max is as good as they've been claiming he is. Thus they feel the need to attack Lewis to justify their stance on Max.

For years we've heard if he had a car that was even a few tenths slower he would run away with the championship or some other nonsense. Now that he a car that's there or there abouts, he's not running away with it.

As much as people like to complain about Lewis's luck and Max's bad luck, Max has also made several strategic mistakes this season. He's had several issues with track limits, and his typical issue of being overly aggressive when he shouldn't.

[RZS10]

To try and get away from the same old boring conversation, how does Aston’s appeal actually work? Do they just get another chance to get all the fuel that they think is in there out of the car? It’s surely pretty black and white. Either it’s there or it isn’t.

What do they do? Take the engine and other components apart bit by bit in front of FIA officials, collect all the fuel and then measure it?

I don’t see any other way they can get it overturned. They surely can’t just argue ‘even though you couldn’t find it, we promise it’s definitely there.’

They first have to present new evidence on monday, they claim they have said new evidence but it's not quite clear whether they were already allowed to try to get the fuel out, from what i gathered the most they could do would be replacing the pumps and then trying to get the remaining fuel out, the rules don't permit taking the car apart.

[Andres125sx]

So latifi can finish the season ahead of Russel.
Can we say he beat him and did the better job?

His race pace isnt so bad.

If he finish the season with more points (very plausible scenario as Williams needs some crazy race to score any more point) then he beat him, but IMO he didn´t do the better job. He simply was favoured for the lower grid position in Hungary, it´s easier to find the clean line some meters far from the crash of turn 1. Russel was closer and was forced to brake, so he lost more time and Latifi did pass him. Luck plays a role and favoured Latifi this time. I don´t think anything similar will be repeated this season, so Latifi will probably finish ahead of Russel, but he´s light years ahead of Latifi as a driver.

This is the reason stats in F1 are probably the most misleading of any other sport, driver talent is just a few part of the equation, lower than at any other sport, so stats are completely misleading

[DChemTech]

What is the point of going over all this again?
Some people believe Hamilton is a god, and are only happy when 100% of the population is convinced he is 100% infallible.

Actually, I think it's that deep down some people are starting to question if Max is as good as they've been claiming he is. Thus they feel the need to attack Lewis to justify their stance on Max.

For years we've heard if he had a car that was even a few tenths slower he would run away with the championship or some other nonsense. Now that he a car that's there or there abouts, he's not running away with it.

As much as people like to complain about Lewis's luck and Max's bad luck, Max has also made several strategic mistakes this season. He's had several issues with track limits, and his typical issue of being overly aggressive when he shouldn't.

Sorry, but responses like this are just as much part of the problem.
Yes, Max fans that do not acknowledge that (whether or not he was not blame) Max would have been wiser to avoid the incident are annoying. But so is the group of Hamilton fans that want to shove the blame of the incident squarely on Max, frame critique on Hamilton as attacks on Hamilton, and continuously blame Max fans for being overzealous and ruining discussions. Unfortunately there is platinum zeal on both sides.

[El Scorchio]

To try and get away from the same old boring conversation, how does Aston’s appeal actually work? Do they just get another chance to get all the fuel that they think is in there out of the car? It’s surely pretty black and white. Either it’s there or it isn’t.

What do they do? Take the engine and other components apart bit by bit in front of FIA officials, collect all the fuel and then measure it?

I don’t see any other way they can get it overturned. They surely can’t just argue ‘even though you couldn’t find it, we promise it’s definitely there.’

They first have to present new evidence on monday, they claim they have said new evidence but it's not quite clear whether they were already allowed to try to get the fuel out, from what i gathered the most they could do would be replacing the pumps and then trying to get the remaining fuel out, the rules don't permit taking the car apart.

Thanks! I wonder what their evidence could be. I’d have thought anything less than being able to produce the required amount of fuel from the engine under supervision would be brushed off. Really not sure what other avenues they could go down. You have to say it’s **** luck if it genuinely is in there somewhere and they just can’t extract it because of some fault. Surely though it’s more likely a sensor or something failed and they thought they were good on fuel but were not. Perhaps if it’s an FIA component they could argue it’s not their fault it failed?

[SiLo]

He didn't say WHICH beach. Could be a very cold brisk one.

He's a Yank. I've been to the US. They have some great beaches.

They also have sharks, I've seen jaws. Give me the seaweed at Margate any day

Don't tell me you're from Margate?! Small world.

[RZS10]

Thanks! I wonder what their evidence could be. I’d have thought anything less than being able to produce the required amount of fuel from the engine under supervision would be brushed off. Really not sure what other avenues they could go down. You have to say it’s **** luck if it genuinely is in there somewhere and they just can’t extract it because of some fault. Surely though it’s more likely a sensor or something failed and they thought they were good on fuel but were not. Perhaps if it’s an FIA component they could argue it’s not their fault it failed?

Going through the stewards' report it can't be:
- the claim that the calculations say there's 1.44L left
- the claim that they did not have a performance advantage

I don't see how they could find new evidence without working on the car, but we know that teams will claim to have convincing evidence and then it ends up being a complete embarrassment.

If they did have access they could have successfully extracted the fuel or at least found proof that the pump was indeed faulty, i don't see how anything else would be relevant.

The regs however mention the possibility to use an external pump, so maybe the entire argument about a faulty internal pump could be irrelevant.

We'll probably have to wait two more days to learn more.

[Big Tea]

So latifi can finish the season ahead of Russel.
Can we say he beat him and did the better job?

His race pace isnt so bad.

Not can we say he beat him, if he has more points he beats him. Especially if its done with the same number of starts and finishes. In 5 years time almost on one (just us F1 nuts) will remember the season, just the number on the sheet.

I I was a team boss would I take him over Russell? No way, but that is not what the question was

Would you though, if Latifi gets 2 more points scoring races and Russel none?
I think Russel is good, but i would lower my expectations if latifi actually continues to imrpove against him and the Williams start looking like it was a Q2 car all this time.

I would, because of the way they 'happened'. I did not put earned because neither drivers points were earned in the traditional manner of either qualifying well and keeping the place or working through to them. We really have to say that whoever was in those cars, they lucked into them.

Once they did, they both drivers held up their end, so nothing bad to be said about them, but I still see them as inherited because not only 6 cars were out (or had penalties) but they 'made their way' cant say navigated due to the conditions, towards the front and maintained most of it.

They did good jobs, but not in the usual field

[Tizz]

Actually, I think it's that deep down some people are starting to question if Max is as good as they've been claiming he is. Thus they feel the need to attack Lewis to justify their stance on Max.

It is quite remarkable how you know what other people think.