I am not going to discuss who was at fault, because that is actually largely irrelevant to what I mean to say.holeindalip wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 13:13Well max asked him wait he was doing and and ocon told him he was faster than him, max proceeded to push ocon around. In my view max was in the wrong on the track and off.DChemTech wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 11:44Based on what we've seen of him (some clashes with Perez & the Max incident mostly), I cannot help but have the impression that he is a bit of a psychological bully. The type of person that throws around little stingy comments, trying to provoke the other, and when the other party responds he plays all innocent while the other party gets the blame. That was very clear with the Max incident. When Max took the bait after the race, Ocon just stood there smirking, and it worked - Max got penalized for the post-race incident, Ocon got away. It very much reminded me of some early high school days, where you always have those types that can do nothing wrong in the eyes of the teachers/rest of the world, but straight up terrorize some other students. Admittedly, I have shown some of that behavior in those days, perhaps that's why it resonates in case of Ocon now.Scorpaguy wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 03:49Does anyone know his reputation? Is he a good kid or a bit of a diva? When he and Hulk were left high/dry...there was certainly a lot of calls begging for him to have a drive...I never heard him say anything that reeked of entitlement. I really only remember the Max passing/wrecking incident and how he positively melted when Max confronted him.
On the other hand, Peter Windsor once berated me for commenting something of the like below a youtube video discussing the incident - he says Ocon is an honest and good kid. Maybe he's right, he gets closer than most of us for sure. On the other hand, maybe he just fell for the trick as well. Most people do. I guess I'm not the one to judge either way - but personally, I'm not too impressed with Ocon based on what we do see publicly.
What you say maybe true but, when a lot of kids look up to you, and you go around pushing people after the race acting like child. Which one looks better to the general public and everyone watching?
Regardless of who's fault the incident was, there were several ways Ocon could have dealt with Max approaching him. He could have said something like "That was not supposed to happen, let's talk about it later". Or "You did deserve to win that race", or whatever, without admitting guilt, and without even stating to regret the move. Doing so, he could have taken an empathizing posture, because regardless of who was at fault, he must understand it sucks to see a race ruined. Yet he chose not to. He chose to rub it in ("I was faster than you"), and to do so with a provoking smirk, right after the race, to an historical rival. Again, talking from some experience, I am not surprised Max took the bait, and I am inclined to think Ocon's actions were intentional. Max's action was stupid, but understandable.
And which one looks better to the general public? I am actually inclined to say Max's. I would say it's more of a human than a childish response - I am sure 90% of the general public would have responded in the same way. Sure, he's in a exemplary role, and his actions as such were stupid and the penalty just. Most of that public probably don't pick up on what, in my view, Ocon was doing. But to the ones that do it just once again shows that one can easily get away with nasty provocations, and that's a more worrying signal than trying to give someone a push, in my view. If the FIA was just, both should have been punished for their role in escalating - not just the party that tried to get physical.
