2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[atanatizante]

Sorry to say, I haven't read anything crappier than this about 'driving' rwd cars with no tc/abs ; in my entire life.

Sometimes you should think before you type. If you think the F1 drivers feel everything before they react then you have a lot to learn. Rear wheel drive doesnt matter. An F1 car is not a sports car. It's an aerodynamic car firstly. The drivers are likely driving on faith in the machine 50% of the time. They are not feeling and reacting to everything. A perfect example is under braking. This is why so many time drivers make mistakes and fall of the track when the tyres are not up to temperature or the track is a little damp. They had faith in grip that they cannot feel until it's too late. They know and believe they should be able to brake at 100m or go through a corner at 150kph. But once the conditions change especially the tyres.. there's only so much you can feel and react to.
The younger drivers depend less on feeling and more on what the simulations say should be possible.
See Antonelli free practice debut last year at Monza. Blind faith in performance expectation is what happened.

Oh god. More of the same.
it's impossible to drive a racing car without 'feel'. That too something from a category that has one of the hardest suspensions of all categories of racing. To say that 50% of the time they don't bother about feel and drive on blind trust alone, is absurd. Trust me, either you don't know what you are talking about, or are not articulating well what you are trying to say. Driving such ultra sensitive cars (F1 cars in general, from any era) is like a delicate dance, it cannot happen without 'feeling' what the car is doing, all the time. The only difference between 'in control' and 'lost control' is 'how well the feel was judged' for previous input and how well the next input is going to be provided 'in prediction' of how the car is going to react next. A glaring example of this mechanism - the 'build up' of the laps they do in practice, before quali, successively trying to exploit the limit of grip more and more each time they run.

To say that 'feedback' is less important to younger generation drivers who have grown up on sims , than the older generation, is incorrect. What you call 'throwing the car around' is what even the older generation did. Just that newer generation cars have more 'tools' to on-the-fly adjust the behavior of the car to driver inputs. The human mechanism of 'driving' has always been the same.

With due respect, in the above video, James Vowles seems to disagree with you, my friend ...

[mstar]

I wonder as fred's contract is up end of 2025, if this season is a right-off i wonder if Fred will...
1) Get only 1 year extension as dumping him in 2025 when big reg change coming be too dangerous.
2) they will get Coletta (or other) in during 2026, if 2026 is atrocious. If they win the WCC/WDC then fred stays.
3) They go full send and get rid of Fred end of the season and take a risk with Coletta / other?

The big issue was i think 2024 Cardile left and there was no TD to oversea the 2025 project. I hope the ferrari board see thats not Freds fault UNLESS fred was to blame for not getting Newey...

[venkyhere]

Sometimes you should think before you type. If you think the F1 drivers feel everything before they react then you have a lot to learn. Rear wheel drive doesnt matter. An F1 car is not a sports car. It's an aerodynamic car firstly. The drivers are likely driving on faith in the machine 50% of the time. They are not feeling and reacting to everything. A perfect example is under braking. This is why so many time drivers make mistakes and fall of the track when the tyres are not up to temperature or the track is a little damp. They had faith in grip that they cannot feel until it's too late. They know and believe they should be able to brake at 100m or go through a corner at 150kph. But once the conditions change especially the tyres.. there's only so much you can feel and react to.
The younger drivers depend less on feeling and more on what the simulations say should be possible.
See Antonelli free practice debut last year at Monza. Blind faith in performance expectation is what happened.

Oh god. More of the same.
it's impossible to drive a racing car without 'feel'. That too something from a category that has one of the hardest suspensions of all categories of racing. To say that 50% of the time they don't bother about feel and drive on blind trust alone, is absurd. Trust me, either you don't know what you are talking about, or are not articulating well what you are trying to say. Driving such ultra sensitive cars (F1 cars in general, from any era) is like a delicate dance, it cannot happen without 'feeling' what the car is doing, all the time. The only difference between 'in control' and 'lost control' is 'how well the feel was judged' for previous input and how well the next input is going to be provided 'in prediction' of how the car is going to react next. A glaring example of this mechanism - the 'build up' of the laps they do in practice, before quali, successively trying to exploit the limit of grip more and more each time they run.

To say that 'feedback' is less important to younger generation drivers who have grown up on sims , than the older generation, is incorrect. What you call 'throwing the car around' is what even the older generation did. Just that newer generation cars have more 'tools' to on-the-fly adjust the behavior of the car to driver inputs. The human mechanism of 'driving' has always been the same.

With due respect, in the above video, James Vowles seems to disagree with you, my friend ...

Nothing that James Vowles said, translates to 'a driver doesn't need to rely on feel all the time' (which is the moot point of this sub-discussion in this thread). If you think otherwise, please explain.

[ScuderiaLeo]

There's too much expectation on the incoming suspension change. Even people on this forum have proposed the idea that Ferrari will be in consistent win contention after the upgrade. It may give them additional performance on track or better balance or what have you, but it's never going to be that dramatic and it's doomed to fall below the sky-high expectations...

[ringo]

we are pushing back against incompetence, spread the word

#ElkannOUT #VignaOUT

If the board is only doing what shareholders want then they are good. That's the thing with these big corporations, it's much different than an isolated and independently run team.
The call for Fred to leave.. how can it be verified that the coordination came from above?
I do not get into workplace politics, but it's best they let Fred go to at least end of 2026. They must have been really upset about the ride height problem. If after they fix the problem, the car is the fastest, they're going to be even angrier that Fred scored an own goal and lost them a title.

[ringo]

Sorry to say, I haven't read anything crappier than this about 'driving' rwd cars with no tc/abs ; in my entire life.

Sometimes you should think before you type. If you think the F1 drivers feel everything before they react then you have a lot to learn. Rear wheel drive doesnt matter. An F1 car is not a sports car. It's an aerodynamic car firstly. The drivers are likely driving on faith in the machine 50% of the time. They are not feeling and reacting to everything. A perfect example is under braking. This is why so many time drivers make mistakes and fall of the track when the tyres are not up to temperature or the track is a little damp. They had faith in grip that they cannot feel until it's too late. They know and believe they should be able to brake at 100m or go through a corner at 150kph. But once the conditions change especially the tyres.. there's only so much you can feel and react to.
The younger drivers depend less on feeling and more on what the simulations say should be possible.
See Antonelli free practice debut last year at Monza. Blind faith in performance expectation is what happened.

Oh god. More of the same.
it's impossible to drive a racing car without 'feel'. That too something from a category that has one of the hardest suspensions of all categories of racing. To say that 50% of the time they don't bother about feel and drive on blind trust alone, is absurd. Trust me, either you don't know what you are talking about, or are not articulating well what you are trying to say. Driving such ultra sensitive cars (F1 cars in general, from any era) is like a delicate dance, it cannot happen without 'feeling' what the car is doing, all the time. The only difference between 'in control' and 'lost control' is 'how well the feel was judged' for previous input and how well the next input is going to be provided 'in prediction' of how the car is going to react next. A glaring example of this mechanism - the 'build up' of the laps they do in practice, before quali, successively trying to exploit the limit of grip more and more each time they run.

To say that 'feedback' is less important to younger generation drivers who have grown up on sims , than the older generation, is incorrect. What you call 'throwing the car around' is what even the older generation did. Just that newer generation cars have more 'tools' to on-the-fly adjust the behavior of the car to driver inputs. The human mechanism of 'driving' has always been the same.

This would need a new thread, but none of us have ever driven an F-1 car. No point in arguing on the superficial ideas of how a car feel and dancing ect. You basically created statements i never made like " driver's don't bother" and "less important" to frame a narrative to suit your argument.
Humans detect stimulus, and react, and the muscles respond. If you add even the ultimate limit of all of those, you will see that it's a wider gap than some of the gaps between drivers in a phase in a corner.
Visual stimulus 250 milliseconds, touch/pressure 150, brain processing 200ms, not to mention moving the muscles.

Anything response to stimulus faster than 200 milliseconds is anticipatory. Those are scientific facts. So again, just do a little research on human limits. These super fast cars are not driven on pure seat of the pants reaction like you think. Most of it is anticipatory, and again this new generation of driver has an advantage from their upbringing with simulations vs the older drivers who leaned on real life testing to hone their feel and anticipation. And remember the cornering speeds and gaps and the whole precision of the sport is way more granular today than in the past.
So no, feedback is not less important to current drivers, but being used to training in a sim, where there is no real feedback means there is less reliance on feedback and more trust in the specified performance.

[Luscion]

Interesting from Lewis

"We had problems that damaged us a lot in Spain from the middle of the race. The team doesn't want to talk about it too much, but I said at the end of the race that I had never experienced something so difficult. After the GP with the engineers, we realized there was a problem and having spotted it was a relief."

"The accusations from some Italian newspapers? I haven't read anything, I learned about it here. Vasseur is the main reason I'm here and I'm grateful to him. We're living this adventure together and I want him to stay. I think he's the person who can take us to the top. Unfounded rumors, not everything is going smoothly and there's a lot to do, but there's no discussion about Vasseur's position."

[ringo]

Well I guess he's going to have to put that in the book he's going to write. This weekend there should be no more operational problems and hopefully we see how both cars run.
Any updates expected this weekend?

[CjC]

Sorry if you guys have already discussed this but does anyone know what the issue is that hindered both drivers halfway through the last race?
https://www.racefans.net/2025/06/12/fer ... -hamilton/

[Luscion]

No upgrades for Ferrari as reported

[Seanspeed]

we are pushing back against incompetence, spread the word

#ElkannOUT #VignaOUT

Uh no, I'm not gonna join some crusade based on some rumor from notoriously unreliable national media, ffs.

[ringo]

Anothe rumour debunked is that of Elkan bringing Lewis to the team. Lewis has said the reason he is here is Fred. He also has no plans of leaving prematurely.

[Seanspeed]

Anothe rumour debunked is that of Elkan bringing Lewis to the team. Lewis has said the reason he is here is Fred. He also has no plans of leaving prematurely.

I mean, one claim doesn't inherently discount the other. Lewis isn't here for literally just one person and that's the ONLY interaction or reason he ever had to make his decision. It's far from impossible that Elkann did initiate contact and interest, and that Fred was more of a 'clincher' factor than the sole reason or sole person who initially created contact.

[Fakepivot]

oh as if the weekend could not get worse T_T charles bins it.. hope they can repair before fp2

[dialtone]

oh as if the weekend could not get worse T_T charles bins it.. hope they can repair before fp2

Weekend hasn’t started, how can it be worse already?