2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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turbof1
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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LionKing wrote:Even at that point it looks like Verstappen car is headed towards Kimi's, not the other way around.
The images I made in my edit of my previous message, shown from Verstappen's onboard camera, showed otherwise. Look at Verstappen's left wheel and the relative position of the white line that follows the corner. He clearly moves closer and indeed inside of the line, just when Vettel hits Raikkonen. If anything, Raikkonen was moving towards Verstappen very slightly. If Vettel was not there, I do not believe Raikkonen and Verstappen would have hit since the corner opened up after.
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LionKing
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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I am still seeing that way. Actually Vettel has expressed what I think in a much better way:

"I don't think what Max was trying to do would have worked," Vettel said. "Obviously he didn't allow Kimi to move into the inside, and that prevented both of them from clearing Turn One in a normal way. We all three touched and collided, and this was bad news for Kimi and for me. Of course, with hindsight, I would have given more room to the inside, but you want to make the corner and try to race, and I gave room to Kimi, but not to three cars.

"Max had a bad start, he was falling behind. I think we have seen in the last couple of years that if you really dive down the very inside,the track is falling off and you basically go straight. The cars ahead have priority, and this is something he needs to understand. In that regard there was no way he could have made the corner without making contact."

Edit: His view about the other incident "We talked about moving under braking. Top speed... reaching 340 km/h... and he's moving," Vettel told NBC Sports after the race. "It works so long as the car behind plays accordingly and lifts. But if both stick to line, both crash. That's not what you want to do. If you drive like that it won't end up too well. More than anything it cost us - and him - a lot of time."

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turbof1
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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"I don't think what Max was trying to do would have worked," Vettel said. "Obviously he didn't allow Kimi to move into the inside, and that prevented both of them from clearing Turn One in a normal way. We all three touched and collided, and this was bad news for Kimi and for me. Of course, with hindsight, I would have given more room to the inside, but you want to make the corner and try to race, and I gave room to Kimi, but not to three cars.
So he's basically saying somebody taking the inside of a corner is a hindrance to someone else alongside on the outside. Isn't that just about always the case when overtaking someone in a corner? I still don't feel this unjustifies Verstappen's move.

The only thing I feel Vettel has more or less a bit of a case about is this:
The cars ahead have priority, and this is something he needs to understand. In that regard there was no way he could have made the corner without making contact.
That is somewhat as this is a norm in racing. However, a lot of drivers fail to do so and there's no ruling about this in F1. This norm is in a grey area whether or not you should abide to it.
#AeroFrodo

Edax
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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turbof1 wrote:
LionKing wrote:Even at that point it looks like Verstappen car is headed towards Kimi's, not the other way around.
The images I made in my edit of my previous message, shown from Verstappen's onboard camera, showed otherwise. Look at Verstappen's left wheel and the relative position of the white line that follows the corner. He clearly moves closer and indeed inside of the line, just when Vettel hits Raikkonen. If anything, Raikkonen was moving towards Verstappen very slightly. If Vettel was not there, I do not believe Raikkonen and Verstappen would have hit since the corner opened up after.
Agree. Also they both continue the corner, normally albeit with a bit of damage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEEklV-i75k

If you look at the onboard of Raikkonen you can see how agressively Vettel cuts across and how Rakkonen tries to avoid him. At the moment of impact he even has his right front on the white line and the wedge is still narrowing. It looks to me that perhaps Raikkonen and Vettel would have touched even without Verstappen present although that is difficult to judge without an aerial.

As for Vettels comments. I don't think he is in a completely unbiased position having hit his team mate, damaging both cars and loosing valuable points to RB.

Anyway I think we now can exclude seeing Verstappen in a Ferrari for a long time to come :D

NAPI10
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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FI moved pass Williams AND McLaren overtook TR in construction standing this week. Great going by both teams.

bhall II
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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turbof1 wrote:...he did NOT divebomb into the corner
Verstappen knows what he did; he just thinks it's acceptable...
F1Fanatic wrote:“The start wasn’t great,” Verstappen told reporters after the race. “I dived up in the inside and locked a wheel so I was easily making the corner but they just kept squeezing me.”
It's textbook divebombing if a driver's velocity at corner entry is such that he cannot maintain complete control of his car.

Arriving at the corner ≠ making the corner.

EDIT:

Image
Romain Grosjean arrives at La Source ahead of Fernando Alonso
Last edited by bhall II on 29 Aug 2016, 01:25, edited 1 time in total.

Nathanael F1
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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I am so tired of Verstappen's dangerous driving tactics. Forcing another driver off the track is simply unacceptable. And to do it more than once at the same corner on top of that! Has he forgotten how to turn right? Maybe he should get a drive in NASCAR instead. Unbelievable. There's no doubt he's got amazing talent, but I have nearly no respect for him now after his recent races.

I hope his "honeymoon period" with the press and stewards ends soon.
Favorite Team: Scuderia Ferrari
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TAG
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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Ferrari should be thanking Verstappen, it's because of him they're not going to be busy for the next two days 'splainin why their drivers made a mess of turn one. Blue car on the inside or not, they were hitting each other.

At least the Merc boys can manage to do it without involving anyone else. :P

Seriously, Verstappen defends with all the grace normally seen in a mosh pit. The exceptional ire this weekend *IS* because of the turn one incident, otherwise there would be very little discussion as the rest of the race he drove as he usually has. He's 18, he's clearly not mature enough to accept blame for anything, he's got a chip on his shoulder, he's got a mouth and he's now become another very exciting and very skilled driver at Red Bull. Hard to hate on that.
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dans79
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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TAG wrote: the rest of the race he drove as he usually has..
Yea, like a little punk who needs his as* kicked!
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TAG
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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dans79 wrote:
TAG wrote: the rest of the race he drove as he usually has..
Yea, like a little punk who needs his as* kicked!
My point exactly, but let's kick it for the right reason. I mean Vettel blaming the guy for the incident is the low point of the season for Ferrari.
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Zynerji
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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From what I saw, Verstappen had zero chance to come out of that corner ahead, let alone fully in tact.

Maturity will come to his driving, but it obviously isn't there yet.

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ringo
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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In hamilton's last stint i wont go much into him switching to ss to catch rosberg, but he merceded could have done something to at least get him ahead of ricciardo. Going back on the soft or simply overtaking ricciardo when he eas 1s behind could have done the trick.
Taking track position would have been enough for him to cruise to the end and hold on to second place. I was not in agreement with the tactics today.

In hidnsight they should have kept him on mediums after the red flag and keep him on the same strategy as nico.
For Sure!!

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ringo
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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Verstappen was his own worse enemy today. Very poor racing from him and he has zero points to support that.
His defending is very poor and so is his overtaking. No craft whatsoever. I dont remember seeing such poor racing in years.
He is using the fact that he has nothing to lose to his advantage. He is a kid and he has won a race already this year so horner and helmut wont mind if he crashed a few times. What will happen to him though and i feel its not far off; is that he may just find himself sliding acroos the gravel into a barrier or spinning down a backstraight at 150 mph. He might just get more than a sprained ankle...
For Sure!!

Dazed1
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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Scuderia1967 wrote:Rejoice people, Pastor Maldonado is back! It's a bit strange to see him in a Red Bull, however
Verstappen after the first corner dive, "There is a podium, Lewis, you're welcome!" :P

Nathanael F1
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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TAG wrote:Ferrari should be thanking Verstappen, it's because of him they're not going to be busy for the next two days 'splainin why their drivers made a mess of turn one. Blue car on the inside or not, they were hitting each other.

At least the Merc boys can manage to do it without involving anyone else. :P

Seriously, Verstappen defends with all the grace normally seen in a mosh pit. The exceptional ire this weekend *IS* because of the turn one incident, otherwise there would be very little discussion as the rest of the race he drove as he usually has. He's 18, he's clearly not mature enough to accept blame for anything, he's got a chip on his shoulder, he's got a mouth and he's now become another very exciting and very skilled driver at Red Bull. Hard to hate on that.
I disagree. They collided because there was no room on the inside for RAI to move to. If VES didn't decide to try his luck at a late dive bomb, there would have been enough space for both Ferraris to get thru. Not saying that VES is to blame in this incident.
Favorite Team: Scuderia Ferrari
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