2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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F1NAC
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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Manoah2u wrote:
If neither Perez nor Raikkonen is able to MAKE the OUTSIDE overtake by staying on track, then the move simply doesnt cut it, and that's just it.
Try again next lap. Verstappen is a hard case to overtake, he puts his car in the exact right spot without actually being really dangerous.
The fact is, Raikkonen would eventually make into corner but Verstappen in fact lost it on the braking and just lost the corner and pushed kimi wide. Verstappen went off the circuit as well. Watch replay

VET got penalised in Silverstone for losing his car, this kid - not even reprimand. Plus his interview with favoring pushing Ferraris rather than race with them.. .

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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Even if Verstappen 'did not lose it' Raikkonen still would not have made it. Verstappen positioned his car as such that the driver behind could simply not pass, whatever would happen.
Rosberg would have hammered into him and put the blame on Max 'i was on full opposite lock'. Raikkonen did the only wise thing and avoid collision. Verstappen simply made sure that
there was no room to overtake him, that was smart thinking. Nothing more, nothing less.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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dans79
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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God I hope some of the people on this thread don't have drivers licenses........
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mahesh248f1
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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What an insolent child, he is only 18 so let's give him another 8 years and there will be some other 18 year old doing that to him, what goes around comes around :).
Speedster , dribbler , free kick taker ,complete forward .

Nathanael F1
Nathanael F1
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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Manoah2u wrote:Even if Verstappen 'did not lose it' Raikkonen still would not have made it. Verstappen positioned his car as such that the driver behind could simply not pass, whatever would happen.
Rosberg would have hammered into him and put the blame on Max 'i was on full opposite lock'. Raikkonen did the only wise thing and avoid collision. Verstappen simply made sure that
there was no room to overtake him, that was smart thinking. Nothing more, nothing less.
Whatever happened to leaving space if the other driver is alongside?
Favorite Team: Scuderia Ferrari
Favorite Driver: Nico Hülkenberg

Silent Storm
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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Verstappen fans some crazy fans. They should join him whenever he wishes to visit his phychiatrist in near future.
If this had happened in older times he would have got his a** beaten.
I learn from the mistakes of people who take my advice...

sosic2121
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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dans79 wrote:God I hope some of the people on this thread don't have drivers licenses........
=D> :D

bhall II
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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turbof1 wrote:Ben, I hate to make this a matter of symantics, but I there is a difference between diving into a hole (as in taking a certain open line to overtake in a corner) and divebombing into a hole (the same as above, but braking too late without a chance to make it stick into the corner).
And what we saw was a case of the latter.
As Verstappen said himself, he did lock up...
Call it whatever you want. If a maneuver is so aggressive that the laws of physics transform the driver into a passenger, everything else is irrelevant.

Edax
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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bhall II wrote: As Verstappen said himself, he did lock up...
That is not exactly what he said rather the opposite:
Asked about Turn 1, Verstappen said Vettel - who was on the outside and turned across Raikkonen and Verstappen - should take the lion's share of any blame.

"My start wasn't great but then I dived inside, didn't lock a wheel and was easily making the corner, but they kept squeezing me," he explained.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/head ... icism.html

interview at 0:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLO8ncvZ-FM

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turbof1
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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bhall II wrote:
turbof1 wrote:Ben, I hate to make this a matter of symantics, but I there is a difference between diving into a hole (as in taking a certain open line to overtake in a corner) and divebombing into a hole (the same as above, but braking too late without a chance to make it stick into the corner).
And what we saw was a case of the latter.
As Verstappen said himself, he did lock up...
Call it whatever you want. If a maneuver is so aggressive that the laws of physics transform the driver into a passenger, everything else is irrelevant.
Verstappen said after the race he did not lock up. Did he correct himself later on?

I still don't judge that as divebombing. Agreed, he was always going to have a very slow exit out of the corner due a too tight line to carry momentum. However, if a driver has his car alongside another and this is significant before corner entry, and also given they did not went down that straight at full speed due the standing start, like here;
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Then that's nothing more then putting your car rightfully there. You can argue it's a fools gamble to get anything worthwhile out of that move, but he had the right to choose that line.

If he entered the corner with too much speed, I would fully agree with you and then it becomes divebombing. Nothing you or anybody else who provided anything substantial he carried too much speed into the corner and effectively was a passenger.

The passengers where Verstappen and Raikkonen, who got a ride on the Vettel rollercoaster. Squeezing is fine as long as your competitor makes room for you. If he does not, you'll get trouble when you continue squeezing. IMO, it was poor judgement from Verstappen in the sense he would not get anything worthwhile from sticking to the inside of the corner like that, but it was a lot more poor judgement from Vettel who did not act properly on Raikkonen not moving more to the right.

For the record: what he did with Vettel, Perez and Raikkonen later in the race was way too agressive and borderline moronic.
#AeroFrodo

bhall II
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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Edax wrote:That is not exactly what he said rather the opposite:
If that's the case, F1Fanatic got the quote wrong.
bhall II wrote:
F1Fanatic wrote:“The start wasn’t great,” Verstappen told reporters after the race. “I dived up in the inside and locked a wheel so I was easily making the corner but they just kept squeezing me.”
I still don't understand how in the world he thought he could make this work...

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dans79
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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bhall II wrote: I still don't understand how in the world he thought he could make this work...
He thinks he's special so he can do whatever he wants and get away with it.
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turbof1
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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bhall II wrote:
Edax wrote:That is not exactly what he said rather the opposite:
If that's the case, F1Fanatic got the quote wrong.
bhall II wrote:
F1Fanatic wrote:“The start wasn’t great,” Verstappen told reporters after the race. “I dived up in the inside and locked a wheel so I was easily making the corner but they just kept squeezing me.”
I still don't understand how in the world he thought he could make this work...

http://i.imgur.com/ObmfKrb.gif
Are you asking whether he was capable of holding that line or are you asking he could stick the move and get pass the Ferraris? In the first case there is room to argue (although again I have not seen anything pointing to the contrary), and the second case he would likely have come to almost a full stop at the apex due little room to carry momentum. In the framework of causing accidents I don't feel it is relevant whether you have taken a sensible line to overtake or not, but rather you have taken a line where you are able to keep yourself in check not to cause an accident by your own actions.

And yes, F1fanatic got the quote wrong:
Motorsport.com wrote:On the subject of the first-corner collision between himself and the Ferraris, Verstappen added: “The start wasn’t great, but from there I dived up the inside and didn’t lock a wheel and was easily making the corner but they just kept squeezing me.
Given Verstappen was traveling around the same speed as Raikkonen -with those 2 having almost identical lines through the corner- when Vettel struck, I don't see he could not have kept his tight line.

(that error from f1fanatic made the whole sentence quite weird: "I locked up the wheel so I easily could make the corner".)
#AeroFrodo

Moose
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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bhall II wrote:
Edax wrote:That is not exactly what he said rather the opposite:
If that's the case, F1Fanatic got the quote wrong.
bhall II wrote:
F1Fanatic wrote:“The start wasn’t great,” Verstappen told reporters after the race. “I dived up in the inside and locked a wheel so I was easily making the corner but they just kept squeezing me.”
I still don't understand how in the world he thought he could make this work...

http://i.imgur.com/ObmfKrb.gif
I think it's entirely reasonable to expect that to work. What he didn't expect (quite reasonably) was Vettel to close the door so agressively. I'm sure Vettel couldn't see Verstappen, and Verstappen couldn't see Vettel, so from Verstappen's point of view, he was racing only Raikkonen, and expected (reasonably) that Raikkonen would give him some room to make the corner. From Vettel's point of view, he was racing only Raikkonen, and he left enough space at the apex for Raikkonen to make the corner. Neither had complete information, and the result is a collision.

The steward's view that it's a racing incident seems entirely reasonable.

bhall II
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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I'll leave it for others to judge.

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