2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Sphere3758]

Someone posted this on Reddit after what Russell said, and I agree;

* Ferrari is well aware of their plank wear issue.
* They decide to go with a reduced ride height anyway to remain competitive and bank on luck such as safety cars, red flags, rain,etc to reduce the wear.
* If no extraordinary events occur, they are forced to make dramatic adjustments such as inflating the pressures, lift and coast to ensure the car remains legal by the end of the race

Been theorized for much of the season already yea. The whole reason people were excited about the new suspension is that it was supposed to alleviate this problem, and allow them run lower without the plank wear fears, realizing their performance potential.

It's looking very much like it didn't work at all.

It seems to me it did alleviate the problem, see performance in the last two races (which have been relatively cold weekends) and the setup they were forced to use in Austria to get the tires in the window.
However the issue is still there, embedded in car design. Probably yesterday they were expecting less plank wear and they had to improvise on extreme tyre pressure at the end.

Is there realtime feedback for the teams on plank wear or is it based on just guesswork ?

[Macklaren]

Is there realtime feedback for the teams on plank wear or is it based on just guesswork ?

Surely they have a sensor but it was interesting to see the engineer looking under the car in parc ferme after the race

[Luscion]

Whats you guys' opinion on this?

[atanatizante]

...

2. He can't digest the fact that his muscle memory from decades of 'slam-the-brakes-with-steering-angle for as late corner entry as possible', is difficult to get rid of; and it pains him to see LeClerc (who doesn't have this problem) put the car on pole. It's a cruel reminder to him that if the car is in the right hands, it isn't that bad after all.

Before you post something regarding F1 driver skills, but mostly because your hate clouds your judgement, I`d recommend you see the reasons behind HAM`s struggles at Ferrari, from the point of view of a renowned specialist technical coach and mentor for open formula drivers:

[SB15]

But they are fairly clearly stating that any gains are too small to be worth bothering with.

So it's certainly not any kind of evidence that this aspect of Ferrari's suspension is the major problem.

That's what I'm not getting. James Allison said that the potential lap time gain was not worth it when it came to the development offset towards the 2026 car. To put it simply: "It wasn't worth the risk because it'll hinder time focused on the 2026 car" because they knew that they had to focus soo much on next year especially when it also have new engine regs.

James even admitted that they would get better results with the front pull-rod because of the aero benefits it has on the ground effect. The only reason I sent this was to show that the whole pull vs push-rod debate wasn't nonsense.

Now when it comes to Ferrari, come on, I think ever F1 pundit can very easily conclude that the rear suspension is the leading cause of the problems for the Scuderia..there's no denying it. Unless Ferrari does what Mercedes did with the W13, get rid of points of downforce via the floor so that the suspension can comply with the ground effect, which is unfortunate to say.

You do not even understand that the quotes you put here are perfectly DISPROVING your statements???
They mean it is not because if you use pull or push rod! Also, your idea how pull vs push rod works is simply terrible... so far from reality.
I'll stop responding to you, but want to urge you to learn about what you are posting first.
Belief is NOT knowledge!! And all you have is beliefs. Suspension works entirely different than how you imagine.
And before you actually know what you are talking about, do not write about it. Thank you.

Well, If you're soo knowledgable what do you think is the problem? Since you said that my idea of "pull vs push works is simply terrible". Maybe you can explain without being so unnecessarily harsh and be respectful on what's really going on?

And if you think I'm saying one suspension is better than the other.. it's not. I'm saying in terms of how it's used for certain aero philosophies, there's a benefit and I said there was a reason why Adrian Newey, & now McLaren went with the same layout that's all I said.

No need to get angry.

[SB15]

That's what I'm not getting. James Allison said that the potential lap time gain was not worth it when it came to the development offset towards the 2026 car. To put it simply: "It wasn't worth the risk because it'll hinder time focused on the 2026 car" because they knew that they had to focus soo much on next year especially when it also have new engine regs.

James even admitted that they would get better results with the front pull-rod because of the aero benefits it has on the ground effect. The only reason I sent this was to show that the whole pull vs push-rod debate wasn't nonsense.

Now when it comes to Ferrari, come on, I think ever F1 pundit can very easily conclude that the rear suspension is the leading cause of the problems for the Scuderia..there's no denying it. Unless Ferrari does what Mercedes did with the W13, get rid of points of downforce via the floor so that the suspension can comply with the ground effect, which is unfortunate to say.

Ferrari's suspension definitely seems to be a big problem, but there's isn't much reason to believe the push vs pull aspect of it is the culprit specifically. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what point you're trying to make?

OH okay sorry, silly mistake! So I meant to add that how the Pull-rod or Push-rod is used for mechanical & aerodynamic purposes has its benefits depending on the regulation of car. One suspension is not better than the other, clearly that's really naive to think about.

To me, James was implying that for this particular generation of car, the pull-rod on the front suspension would've been beneficial for Mercedes due to how these ground effect cars prefer to be operated mechanically and aerodynamically. But, he doesn't see any reason to change it because while it would've worked, there was a new regulation period next year, so investing too much time into the 2025 car would've hindered the 2026 car's development.

So Mercedes seen a compromise and just stuck with concept from the W15 because that saved a lot of time, effort, resources and money.

[bluechris]

All my logic ends in the plank....i don't understand why they bullshit us since the start of the season. The must man up and say the mistake they did with the design for this year car is not solvable since the money goes for the car to next year.
With what they do now they pissed everyone and it's worse.

[AR3-GP]

All my logic ends in the plank....i don't understand why they bullshit us since the start of the season. The must man up and say the mistake they did with the design for this year car is not solvable since the money goes for the car to next year.
With what they do now they pissed everyone and it's worse.

It's not only the plank. Hamilton couldn't race because of brake overheating and LICO and it wasn't even warm yesterday. The SF25 is simply a catastrophe (like the other non-Mclaren cars). There are so many flaws in its construction that it's almost unbelievable. This is not Haas, it's Ferrari. Fred is just fortunate that no one better is available to replace him. I predict he will be gone at the end of 2026 when once again he allowed the 2026 car to underdeliver.

[sucof]

Well, If you're soo knowledgable what do you think is the problem? Since you said that my idea of "pull vs push works is simply terrible". Maybe you can explain without being so unnecessarily harsh and be respectful on what's really going on?

And if you think I'm saying one suspension is better than the other.. it's not. I'm saying in terms of how it's used for certain aero philosophies, there's a benefit and I said there was a reason why Adrian Newey, & now McLaren went with the same layout that's all I said.

No need to get angry.

If anyone here would actually know the problem, we would not be here. It is quite obvious, when Ferrari designed its car, they did not know this problem either. And only after testing, perhaps few races they started to understand. It is even possible, they still do not know exactly. So why would here anyone know???
We have like a billionth of the info needed to understand and know the problem, than they have. Not even mentioning the missing knowledge.

What we know is that between push and pull-rod suspension, there must be no such mechanical difference, that the engineers in F1 do not understand. That mechanical difference is in itself quite small as well.
CoG and small aerodynamics difference are usually more important when choosing between these two. Also, to redesign the suspension from one to the other is a huge cost, time, and takes away from other, lot more important development time and money. So they sometimes just stick with what they have.

The problem Ferrari and most F1 team have is to create car thats suspension works well with its floor. Current rules put a huge weight regarding performance on if you can run your car stable over the ground in regards to the floor, to maximise downforce. This is what RedBull got a lot better in the recent years. Remember other cars porpoising?
Ferrari specifically built new front and rear suspension for 2025. And they "simply" did not succeed in making the suspension work well with its floor and to keep the floor above a minimum height to protect their plank.
This is the most we can know.
We can only speculate if there is some very important knowledge they are missing regarding suspension, a new technology perhaps, or that their simulation is not perfect and what they design in the computer, does not work the same way on the track.
It can be that the whole car is not stiff enough, and they do not have the money and time now to redesign their monocoque, and their new rear suspension ought to help with that, with a moderate success.
Perhaps their tyre model is wrong in the simulation.
There were more than rumours that Mercedes used a flat rolling floor (instead of a coarse, more uneven) in their wind tunnel, that effed up all their measurements and simulations regarding ground effect, hence got their car wrong for years in this new area.
So who knows.
I mean, who in their right mind thinks here that they might know better than the actual Ferrari engineers who have the knowledge, the data, the actual hardware in their hands???
So just keep here everything light, never make statements that "we know" or this or that "obviously" better or worse... etc.

[FDD]

Regarding the lower top speed to save the plank, there is a little problem, namely in the 3rd stint CL is only a bit slower or he has better top speed than OP on the start/finish straight, maybe they manage something like fuel but that was completed after the lap 46 or so and also the top speed difference in those laps was not huge. That is to say, also, Russel is BS-ing.
Where he's loosing the time in the last stint is in the middle and last sector, tires (not optimal pressure) and some other problem.
No chances they were working to protect the plank.