Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Hoffman900
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Dbl post.
Last edited by Hoffman900 on Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hoffman900
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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LM10 wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:13 pm
dans79 wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:04 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:00 pm
Another new engine for Bottas in Austin. What's the strategy here?
ICE only, 5 place drop only. most likely testing for next year.
Would they go for a 6. ICE just for testing reasons in such a tight championship, though? I’ve the feeling they’re really pushing the reliability limits. Would also explain their huge power jump lately.
Yes. Given the lack of testing outside of racing, and the 23 race calendar next year, the teams kind of have no choice but do some of this.

I’m sure they sweetened to the pot for Bottas. Maybe that’s what his new car prior to the announcement was about. :lol:

LM10
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Marty_Y wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:14 pm
LM10 wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:13 pm
dans79 wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:04 pm


ICE only, 5 place drop only. most likely testing for next year.
ICE is a 10 place drop.

Would they go for a 6. ICE just for testing reasons in such a tight championship, though? I’ve the feeling they’re really pushing the reliability limits. Would also explain their huge power jump lately.
10 for the first replacement then 5 for each one after.
Yea, edited my post right after I heard that. Thanks.

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atanatizante
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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dans79 wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:04 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:00 pm
Another new engine for Bottas in Austin. What's the strategy here?
ICE only, 5 place drop only. most likely testing for next year.
Yeah, I think so too ...

In the team thread, I wrote about "there are rumours saying that the 3rd spec PU was built with an eye toward the E10 biofuel that should be used in 2022. Thus BOT`s 4th PU at Monza was run with special mapping in order to see had they could compensate some 65HP that they`ll lose with the new fuel ...

The same rumours are also saying that 2021 Merc PU having to cope with more races/km than last year was wear out at a faster rate towards their end of the duty cycle than it was designed for and the reason for that is the fierce battle between them and RB/Honda, which forced them to use more and more aggressive PU mappings in races, all coming with some negative consequences: they have found some issues at the crankshaft and valve seats ..."
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dans79
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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atanatizante wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:23 pm
The same rumours are also saying that 2021 Merc PU having to cope with more races/km than last year was wear out at a faster rate towards their end of the duty cycle than it was designed for and the reason for that is the fierce battle between them and RB/Honda, which forced them to use more and more aggressive PU mappings in races, all coming with some negative consequences: they have found some issues at the crankshaft and valve seats ..."
This it the bit i find highly suspect, as the first PU did just fine.

It ran every free practice, qualifying session, and race for the first 5 race weekends. It was then relegated to fp1 & fp2 duty till Spa, so it did another 6 fp1 and fp2 Sessions.

The numbers just don't add up to me!
183 103 103 7

Hoffman900
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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dans79 wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:31 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:23 pm
The same rumours are also saying that 2021 Merc PU having to cope with more races/km than last year was wear out at a faster rate towards their end of the duty cycle than it was designed for and the reason for that is the fierce battle between them and RB/Honda, which forced them to use more and more aggressive PU mappings in races, all coming with some negative consequences: they have found some issues at the crankshaft and valve seats ..."
This it the bit i find highly suspect, as the first PU did just fine.

It ran every free practice, qualifying session, and race for the first 5 race weekends. It was then relegated to fp1 & fp2 duty till Spa, so it did another 6 fp1 and fp2 Sessions.

The numbers just don't add up to me!
I also suspect sources that are able to specifically specify what the problem is. Anything I can find is innuendo from mysterious or non existent sources.

toraabe
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Remember that from this year there is a limit on the test bench. Probably they want to test changes to the ice before 2022. So do it on the track......

jellybone
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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dans79 wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:31 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:23 pm
The same rumours are also saying that 2021 Merc PU having to cope with more races/km than last year was wear out at a faster rate towards their end of the duty cycle than it was designed for and the reason for that is the fierce battle between them and RB/Honda, which forced them to use more and more aggressive PU mappings in races, all coming with some negative consequences: they have found some issues at the crankshaft and valve seats ..."
This it the bit i find highly suspect, as the first PU did just fine.

It ran every free practice, qualifying session, and race for the first 5 race weekends. It was then relegated to fp1 & fp2 duty till Spa, so it did another 6 fp1 and fp2 Sessions.

The numbers just don't add up to me!
or they do if you have a different perspective of it, sure they were doing fine with the first power unit but at that time while in the hunt it was clear RB was getting the better of them. Last little bit Mercedes has found much more pace and that coincides with this sudden pu unreliability. Unless we are engineers on the team nobody can really know for sure but seems a very plausible narrative

Marty_Y
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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'Few reliability issues' - Wolff
Toto Wolff told Sky Sports after first practice that the Mercedes-powered engines are experiencing some gremlins in the system this season.

"We have had, unfortunately since mid-year, a few reliability issues that keep coming back," the Silver Arrows boss admitted.

"I think we understand better what it is but it means there is no durability in running them."

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atanatizante
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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dans79 wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:31 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:23 pm
The same rumours are also saying that 2021 Merc PU having to cope with more races/km than last year was wear out at a faster rate towards their end of the duty cycle than it was designed for and the reason for that is the fierce battle between them and RB/Honda, which forced them to use more and more aggressive PU mappings in races, all coming with some negative consequences: they have found some issues at the crankshaft and valve seats ..."
This it the bit i find highly suspect, as the first PU did just fine.

It ran every free practice, qualifying session, and race for the first 5 race weekends. It was then relegated to fp1 & fp2 duty till Spa, so it did another 6 fp1 and fp2 Sessions.

The numbers just don't add up to me!
Both Merc and Honda had run their first spec in conservative/detuned PU engine modes in the first 7 races of the season, bearing in mind they have to do 22 races this year with just 3 PU and they also need to do some testing with the new E10 fuel for 2022 ...
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Wolff hinting that the problem compenents are very small but critical to engine operation. You have to break the engine seals to get to them. So might as well introduce a whole new ICE.
He hinted that it is a pneumatic component.

So fortunately, it is not combustion, structural or tribology related.
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amho
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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write engine reliability fix, read cheating and increasing engine power.
There is no Might or Power except with Allah.

FDD
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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It is strange to me that Lewis's engine is not at risk

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atanatizante
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Is well known that this year we don`t have different spec PU, just PU no.1, 2 and 3, right?
Then, in my point of view, the only single parameter (fuel and lubes aside), that was responsible for lowering their reliability was the aggressive engine mappings they were forced to run after they introduced the 3rd PU ... and this theory was backed by Christian Horner, when he was asked on Sky by Jenson Button what was the cause of Merc`s PU failures ... he just said that Merc was forced to run such high engine mappings they didn`t run it before until this year ...
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billamend
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Mercedes has been having problems since last year. Remember Perez engine in Bahrain and Abu Dhabi? And there was a rumor that they were running very conservative in Abu Dhabi because they were afraid of it blowing up.