2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

[dans79]

Anyone else think the GUT penalty was very lenient? Almost an entire lap of ignoring blue flags yet after 3 corners aren't they're supposed to obey the blue flags? 3-4x that amount and only a 5 second penalty. Not to mention it could've had an effect on the race result.

That's what happens when the FIA/stewards show they have no balls! This will get worse and worse till they grow a pair.

[jurinius]

Once again RBR is racing Ferrari while Ferrari is dreaming racing Mercs. Lets see how they will manage to be and stay in front of Ferrari if they finally pass in front. Max is a falcon I really want to know if taking the corner should be taking as another direction change move.

[justmoi]

Boring race.

Red Bull was disappointing, didn't expect them to be slowing down the Ferrari's at the end of the race.

Their vaunted Aero/Chassis went on holiday this weekend.

Got their behinds handed to them by the Mercs, and Ferrari looked quicker passed half way distance.

Their handling of the tyres? Which I don't think is great as seen most especially at Baku. Don't think their aero per say.

I also think the Ferrari is quite a good car and not too far off Mercedes sometimes. They seem to struggle badly on certain Saturdays though

[basti313]

Anyone else think the GUT penalty was very lenient? Almost an entire lap of ignoring blue flags yet after 3 corners aren't they're supposed to obey the blue flags? 3-4x that amount and only a 5 second penalty. Not to mention it could've had an effect on the race result.

That's what happens when the FIA/stewards show they have no balls! This will get worse and worse till they grow a pair.

Come on. Every race thread it is the same. Guys whining about too hard or too soft penalties or no penalties...next race it is the other way round....or the other group of fanboys. It is really getting boring.
The stewards have to work with some lousy written rules and 20 arrogant weirdos who try to bend the rules every time they can and whine about not knowing them like little children. I think they are doing a good job under these circumstances.

[GrandAxe]

Anyone else think the GUT penalty was very lenient? Almost an entire lap of ignoring blue flags yet after 3 corners aren't they're supposed to obey the blue flags? 3-4x that amount and only a 5 second penalty. Not to mention it could've had an effect on the race result.

But the FIA has never been this terrible, it is just one example of the general malaise of F1.

Gutiérrez should have been severely punished, because such behaviour creates the suspicion that influencing race results is acceptable in F1.
Manipulating sports results is usually done to influence pools betting odds - the tiniest whiff of such corruption is a strict no for any sport.

F1's penalty system has now become a really strange lottery, which increasingly creates the wrong perception of the sport, especially as it is claimed to be both the pinnacle of motorsport and on the bleeding edge of technology. That wrong perception is further worsened by the live presses in-depth "analysis" and overhyping of every inconsequential piece of fluff that floats anywhere close to a circuit. The whole atmosphere is unprofessional and getting more so.

I wish Apple would really buy F1. That would bring in the world class professionalism that F1 deserves from a properly run world class company.
</rant over>

[FoxHound]

Their handling of the tyres? Which I don't think is great as seen most especially at Baku. Don't think their aero per say.

I also think the Ferrari is quite a good car and not too far off Mercedes sometimes. They seem to struggle badly on certain Saturdays though

Definitely the tyre management. But this correlates directly to set up which in turn is dependant on Aero and chassis.
At a track that doesn't have a high PU requirement, Red Bull clearly did not have the pace of Mercedes.
The irony is they were decent in a straight line at Hungary, with yet another Barn door sized rear wing, keeping both Ferrari's behind inspite of the Ferrari having better traction out of the corner and DRS.

And the Ferrari is a good car, but too many issues surrounding the gearbox and reliability. The commentators also made mention of Ferrari's inability to switch on the super softs/ultra softs in quali. This hampers them each and every Sunday.

[Spoutnik]

Once again RBR is racing Ferrari while Ferrari is dreaming racing Mercs. Lets see how they will manage to be and stay in front of Ferrari if they finally pass in front. Max is a falcon I really want to know if taking the corner should be taking as another direction change move.

Ferrari pace today was better (or equal at least) than Red Bull pace, Kimi with a normal qualifying could have finish P3. As we have see Verstappen park the bus as always with scary movements at the breaking zone.. Vettel, who don't seems to be at his best with this car was more or less on the same pace as Ricciardo from the end of the first stint.
In qualy Vettel wasn't so off the pace, in his last try in S1 he was on the same sector times as the two Red Bull, and we now how this car is not at his best in slow corner..

[Just_a_fan]

I wish Apple would really buy F1. That would bring in the world class professionalism that F1 deserves from a properly run world class company.
</rant over>

Great, pretty marketing and ever an changing design. Just what F1 doesn't need. What's needed is something that isn't just marketing and bling.

[basti313]

Boring race.

Red Bull was disappointing, didn't expect them to be slowing down the Ferrari's at the end of the race.

Their vaunted Aero/Chassis went on holiday this weekend.

Got their behinds handed to them by the Mercs, and Ferrari looked quicker passed half way distance.

More like completely compromised strategy which put them with very old tyres at the end of the race versus ferrari with fresher tyres. That strategy was really bollocks.

Why? I think the strategy was perfect. Merc had no chance to pit that early and not the pace (at least 1.5, maybe 2 sec advantage) at the end to attack the Bulls if the undercut had worked. The signs were really good: Right before the stop, the Mercs were slower than the Bulls and were running into traffic. The problem was, that the Bulls got really slow on the last set of tires. Ric could only do one 24 lap, the rest was in the 25s. On the other hand the Mercs, that seemed to struggle into 26s, could get back to pace and do 24s.
And what did they loose? There was no chance for Vet to overtake Ric with that small tire deficit. Ves did not look different, he was on a fast strategy as his laptimes dropped before his stop.

[justmoi]

Their handling of the tyres? Which I don't think is great as seen most especially at Baku. Don't think their aero per say.

I also think the Ferrari is quite a good car and not too far off Mercedes sometimes. They seem to struggle badly on certain Saturdays though

Definitely the tyre management. But this correlates directly to set up which in turn is dependant on Aero and chassis.
At a track that doesn't have a high PU requirement, Red Bull clearly did not have the pace of Mercedes.
The irony is they were decent in a straight line at Hungary, with yet another Barn door sized rear wing, keeping both Ferrari's behind inspite of the Ferrari having better traction out of the corner and DRS.

And the Ferrari is a good car, but too many issues surrounding the gearbox and reliability. The commentators also made mention of Ferrari's inability to switch on the super softs/ultra softs in quali. This hampers them each and every Sunday.

Yes I agree with tyre and chassis correlation. Though I don't believe it's the only factor that affects tyres. Otherwise of course every car with good aero would be kind to its tyres.

Re straights in Hungary, they're relatively short. BUT we saw Redbull holding off some Mercedes powered cars on the long straights of China, even BEFORE the Renault engine upgrade in Canada. Clearly Mercedes advantage is not just power. If one reads between the lines, when Horner talked of challenging Ferrari soon (not Mercedes) with their superior to ours technical analysis, he knew power was not the great differentiator any more

Re Ferrari I thought warmer tracks would help them. Their race with Redbull now is very much track dependent

[dans79]

I think they are doing a good job under these circumstances.

I know children who could do a better job than these clowns.

[ChrisDanger]

Interesting race. Red Bull vs Ferrari looks close with no clear victor yet. Unfortunate mistake by Palmer under no pressure whatsoever to miss out on his first point.

Did anyone see what happened to Wehrlein? He was up to P17 after another great start but then did a 1:47.840 which dropped him right to the back again, somewhere around lap 5-10.

A lot quieter around here after the "boring" race. =D>

[FoxHound]

Yes I agree with tyre and chassis correlation. Though I don't believe it's the only factor that affects tyres. Otherwise of course every car with good aero would be kind to its tyres.

Re straights in Hungary, they're relatively short. BUT we saw Redbull holding off some Mercedes powered cars on the long straights of China, even BEFORE the Renault engine upgrade in Canada. Clearly Mercedes advantage is not just power. If one reads between the lines, when Horner talked of challenging Ferrari soon (not Mercedes) with their superior to ours technical analysis, he knew power was not the great differentiator any more

Re Ferrari I thought warmer tracks would help them. Their race with Redbull now is very much track dependent

Agree pretty much with everything there.

The real ace card for Mercedes is how that car uses it's tyres. They can go longer and quicker than anyone else, irrespective of track and it's PU dependency.
Next year this will be neutered due to the wider tyre and chassis.

If Ferrari can find a solution to qualy, they'll beat Red Bull this year. Big IF.

[Spoutnik]

Their handling of the tyres? Which I don't think is great as seen most especially at Baku. Don't think their aero per say.

I also think the Ferrari is quite a good car and not too far off Mercedes sometimes. They seem to struggle badly on certain Saturdays though

Definitely the tyre management. But this correlates directly to set up which in turn is dependant on Aero and chassis.
At a track that doesn't have a high PU requirement, Red Bull clearly did not have the pace of Mercedes.
The irony is they were decent in a straight line at Hungary, with yet another Barn door sized rear wing, keeping both Ferrari's behind inspite of the Ferrari having better traction out of the corner and DRS.

And the Ferrari is a good car, but too many issues surrounding the gearbox and reliability. The commentators also made mention of Ferrari's inability to switch on the super softs/ultra softs in quali. This hampers them each and every Sunday.

Yes I agree with tyre and chassis correlation. Though I don't believe it's the only factor that affects tyres. Otherwise of course every car with good aero would be kind to its tyres.

Re straights in Hungary, they're relatively short. BUT we saw Redbull holding off some Mercedes powered cars on the long straights of China, even BEFORE the Renault engine upgrade in Canada. Clearly Mercedes advantage is not just power. If one reads between the lines, when Horner talked of challenging Ferrari soon (not Mercedes) with their superior to ours technical analysis, he knew power was not the great differentiator any more

Re Ferrari I thought warmer tracks would help them. Their race with Redbull now is very much track dependent

Mercedes advantage is clearly on energy deployments. A good engine is not only based speed trap at the end of the main straight but also on the quality of the ERS which permit a better/more balanced brake because as I can seen on the oboard the Mercedes are the cars with the most stabel/efficient braking system and that's certainly why he overheat so often. Plus their energy deployment allowed them a really good traction. Also the strat.1 mode is so impressive in Q3 I mean in Silverstone from Q2 to Q3 they up their pace by +1second. This better engine means also most of the performance come from him, and not the chassis (like Red Bull) so = lesser tires deg with a less aggressive setup, a better braking stability, and a better use of the 100kg of fuel (maybe they start the race with less fuel than the others).

[justmoi]

Yes I agree with tyre and chassis correlation. Though I don't believe it's the only factor that affects tyres. Otherwise of course every car with good aero would be kind to its tyres.

Re straights in Hungary, they're relatively short. BUT we saw Redbull holding off some Mercedes powered cars on the long straights of China, even BEFORE the Renault engine upgrade in Canada. Clearly Mercedes advantage is not just power. If one reads between the lines, when Horner talked of challenging Ferrari soon (not Mercedes) with their superior to ours technical analysis, he knew power was not the great differentiator any more

Re Ferrari I thought warmer tracks would help them. Their race with Redbull now is very much track dependent

Agree pretty much with everything there.

The real ace card for Mercedes is how that car uses it's tyres. They can go longer and quicker than anyone else, irrespective of track and it's PU dependency.
Next year this will be neutered due to the wider tyre and chassis.

If Ferrari can find a solution to qualy, they'll beat Red Bull this year. Big IF.

I think after 2013 and the W04 (incidentally a car with great aero but was abysmal on tyres) the work Mercedes did to understand tyres never stopped! Definitely their ace. I think of all those laps in pre season now just pounding around...

I think with the set up of the organisation they now have from engine aero suspension coordination and even tyre understanding, though different rules next year I think Mercedes will be just fine in 2017. And going forward

The spanner might be if, with new rules, someone finds an 'unforeseen trick'