2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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munudeges
munudeges
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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Diesel wrote:Massively worrying precedent set this weekend after the stewards didn't penalise Rosberg for speeding through double waved yellows. Jules Bianchi's death can be mostly attributed to not slowing down for yellow flags. Very worrying.
Applying all these silly rules the FIA have come up with equally in every situation?! Surely not? :shock:

munudeges
munudeges
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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Sonador wrote:It was Raikonen who weaved, Verstappen moved only once wich is allowed.
On two separate occasions Verstappen moved back to the inside when Raikkonen behind was under braking. He also weaved all the way down the pit straight on more than one occasion.

This kid had his warning in Monaco last year when he could have been killed. Raikkonen was far too kind and should have done what drivers would have done in the past - taken him into a quiet spot and beat the ever living --- out of him. It's for his own good.

ripper
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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In My opinion Hamilton tried to push rosberg into ricciardo. When his engineer said that they were going to pit rosberg first to avoid undercut from ricciardo he started to lap quicker

Sevach
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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FoxHound wrote:
Sevach wrote:
The strategy was sound imo, they knowingly sacrificed the end of the race trying to gain track position on the Mercs.
The problem was Ricciardo on fresh tires was slower than the Mercs on old.
Only, they didn't need to pit so early, and risked falling off a cliff at the end of the race.

But as you pointed out, they were slower on new tyres than Merc were on old. Realistically, they were nowhere near Mercedes around a track that favoured them.
They couldn't wait, Vettel was right there (2s behind Ricciardo if i'm not mistaken), if Red Bull doesn't pull the trigger Ferrari could've tried something, 2 or 3 laps after Ricciardo pitted Ferrari might've thought "good enough".

For all the talk about how crappy his strategy was, it served to keep him safe from Vettel, it doesn't matter wether he finishes 17 or 27s behind Mercedes.

Sonador
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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munudeges wrote:
Sonador wrote:It was Raikonen who weaved, Verstappen moved only once wich is allowed.
On two separate occasions Verstappen moved back to the inside when Raikkonen behind was under braking. He also weaved all the way down the pit straight on more than one occasion.

This kid had his warning in Monaco last year when he could have been killed. Raikkonen was far too kind and should have done what drivers would have done in the past - taken him into a quiet spot and beat the ever living --- out of him. It's for his own good.
I have not seen what you stated.

And beating someone "the ever --- out of him" is a bit uncalled for.
I think it was just a racing incident, both their moves were just badly timed.
There was no way Raikonen could have made that move, stick and just outbraked a tad.
And Verstappen could have left a bit more room.

Why you brought up Monaco i have no idea..

flickerf1
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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Moose wrote:
Spoutnik wrote:Mercedes advantage is clearly on energy deployments. A good engine is not only based speed trap at the end of the main straight but also on the quality of the ERS which permit a better/more balanced brake because as I can seen on the oboard the Mercedes are the cars with the most stabel/efficient braking system and that's certainly why he overheat so often. Plus their energy deployment allowed them a really good traction. Also the strat.1 mode is so impressive in Q3 I mean in Silverstone from Q2 to Q3 they up their pace by +1second. This better engine means also most of the performance come from him, and not the chassis (like Red Bull) so = lesser tires deg with a less aggressive setup, a better braking stability, and a better use of the 100kg of fuel (maybe they start the race with less fuel than the others).
Alternatively, it could simply be that they have a better chassis and aerodynamic design than anyone else. The whole field seems to pretty much universally agree these days that the Ferrari engine is right up there with Merc's, and that Renault's is not far behind any more. Mercedes have simply done a better job aerodynamically than anyone else in this generation.
This.
The Wicked + The Divine.

Edax
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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munudeges wrote:
Sonador wrote:It was Raikonen who weaved, Verstappen moved only once wich is allowed.
On two separate occasions Verstappen moved back to the inside when Raikkonen behind was under braking. He also weaved all the way down the pit straight on more than one occasion.

This kid had his warning in Monaco last year when he could have been killed. Raikkonen was far too kind and should have done what drivers would have done in the past - taken him into a quiet spot and beat the ever living --- out of him. It's for his own good.
The stewards were right in their decision. He only moved once. But the way he does it is not very nice imo. He waits till the attacking driver chooses a side and is too close to crossover and then moves to block. Just like Rosberg did to Hamilton in Spain. it is not illegal but I think it gives the defender too much of an advantage and is risky. In champ car these kind of moves were illegal and perhaps it should be in F1.

By the way the comparison with Monaco eludes me. When was he defending dangerously there?

Sonador
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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flickerf1 wrote:
Moose wrote:
Spoutnik wrote:Mercedes advantage is clearly on energy deployments. A good engine is not only based speed trap at the end of the main straight but also on the quality of the ERS which permit a better/more balanced brake because as I can seen on the oboard the Mercedes are the cars with the most stabel/efficient braking system and that's certainly why he overheat so often. Plus their energy deployment allowed them a really good traction. Also the strat.1 mode is so impressive in Q3 I mean in Silverstone from Q2 to Q3 they up their pace by +1second. This better engine means also most of the performance come from him, and not the chassis (like Red Bull) so = lesser tires deg with a less aggressive setup, a better braking stability, and a better use of the 100kg of fuel (maybe they start the race with less fuel than the others).
Alternatively, it could simply be that they have a better chassis and aerodynamic design than anyone else. The whole field seems to pretty much universally agree these days that the Ferrari engine is right up there with Merc's, and that Renault's is not far behind any more. Mercedes have simply done a better job aerodynamically than anyone else in this generation.
This.
I remember Ross Brawn saying that they were "weak" on theur earodepartment, and that he wil work to get that sorted.
That was back in 2011 i tought. Now they have te strongest earodepartment of the entire field.
Last edited by Sonador on Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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hollus
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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@Turbo
No wish of starting a ying-yang and even less with a moderator, but the rule does not say that only one move is allowed. It says that you are allowed one move (Max ducks to the right); that then you are allowed to return to the racing line (Max ducks to the left) and that then you are allowed to take the corner (Max turns right again, no one calling foul here).
Max waited for the very last meter to do it all, did it with eyes on his mirrors and left Raikonnen no where to go... except that Raikkonen lost his left end plate in a right-handed corner, which doesn´t quite fit with Max making an ill timed move to his left, which is what the complaints seem to be about. Raikkonen chose to try the inside line again after all, and probably everyone would have made the same call, but it was his call to put the car there in the first place.

The kid played dirty... kind of, maybe, but within the rules to the last comma. IMHO.
I would like to see a paleontologist.

KeiKo403
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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Esteban Gutierrez wrote:"Not a very respectful move from him I have to say. I have spoken to him in the past, I think he is respectful, he is the world champion, but he shouldn't do these kinds of things he should respect all of the competitors, you never know, maybe in the future I will be fighting a championship with him so he has to respect that."
Hmmmmm.....Yes Esteban, keep telling yourself that buddy :lol: I doubt he'll be retained by Haas next season.

Sonador
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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Edax wrote:
munudeges wrote:
Sonador wrote:It was Raikonen who weaved, Verstappen moved only once wich is allowed.
On two separate occasions Verstappen moved back to the inside when Raikkonen behind was under braking. He also weaved all the way down the pit straight on more than one occasion.

This kid had his warning in Monaco last year when he could have been killed. Raikkonen was far too kind and should have done what drivers would have done in the past - taken him into a quiet spot and beat the ever living --- out of him. It's for his own good.
The stewards were right in their decision. He only moved once. But the way he does it is not very nice imo. He waits till the attacking driver chooses a side and is too close to crossover and then moves to block. Just like Rosberg did to Hamilton in Spain. it is not illegal but I think it gives the defender too much of an advantage and is risky. In champ car these kind of moves were illegal and perhaps it should be in F1.

By the way the comparison with Monaco eludes me. When was he defending dangerously there?
I dont think you can compare that move of Rosberg in Spain, with what Max did in Hungary.
I agree it is on the absolute limit, but not over the limit.
The rules defenitly needs looking at, but i do not want to see a overregulated F1.

komninosm
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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GrandAxe wrote:What about Lewis driving so slowly and getting on the radio to complain that he was struggling for pace until Merc warned him to either pick up speed or they would pit Nico first? Next lap, Lewis was a full second faster.

Could that have engine saving, pushing Nico into Ricciardo, or an attempt to destroy Nico's tyres?
Yeah very strange race indeed. Hamilton's pace was so weird at one point I thought maybe he has a problem like Baku. Or there's a new no passing (unless we say so) team order and he wanted to see how far he could push the limits on that. Even when Hamilton went off the road once and Rosberg came right behind him (from a couple of seconds back) he had him back to 1.2 seconds in like 3 turns. Did either of them say anything about this or only PR statements?

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iotar__
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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Sonador wrote:
Edax wrote:
munudeges wrote: On two separate occasions Verstappen moved back to the inside when Raikkonen behind was under braking. He also weaved all the way down the pit straight on more than one occasion.

This kid had his warning in Monaco last year when he could have been killed. Raikkonen was far too kind and should have done what drivers would have done in the past - taken him into a quiet spot and beat the ever living --- out of him. It's for his own good.
The stewards were right in their decision. He only moved once. But the way he does it is not very nice imo. He waits till the attacking driver chooses a side and is too close to crossover and then moves to block. Just like Rosberg did to Hamilton in Spain. it is not illegal but I think it gives the defender too much of an advantage and is risky. In champ car these kind of moves were illegal and perhaps it should be in F1.

By the way the comparison with Monaco eludes me. When was he defending dangerously there?
I dont think you can compare that move of Rosberg in Spain, with what Max did in Hungary.
I agree it is on the absolute limit, but not over the limit.
The rules defenitly needs looking at, but i do not want to see a overregulated F1.
Reply is to one post above (after replays):
No you can't and it's tasteless to compare Hamilton crashing into Rosberg with this incident (starting with going off and losing the car on his own by the former). Changes of speed, speed itself, changes of directions - sudden not one long move and space where it happened (not even comparable) are completely different. Two changes of direction are not the same if you do it over 2 m and suddenly, even if the second one pretends to be coming back on r. line it's not in combination with the above mentioned aspects.

Versteppen was the one causing this collision on top of all that (the opposite), no chance to react to chaotic driving like that. The fact that they didn't even investigate it never mind penalise is beyond me. That was dirty and poor driving. This part, collision and lying (brake testing =D> ) is your connection with Monaco. Simple drive-through but of course they don't even touch Red Bull's fake chosen ones. Where is common sense and your sensors now?

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turbof1
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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hollus wrote:@Turbo
No wish of starting a ying-yang and even less with a moderator, but the rule does not say that only one move is allowed. It says that you are allowed one move (Max ducks to the right); that then you are allowed to return to the racing line (Max ducks to the left) and that then you are allowed to take the corner (Max turns right again, no one calling foul here).
Max waited for the very last meter to do it all, did it with eyes on his mirrors and left Raikonnen no where to go... except that Raikkonen lost his left end plate in a right-handed corner, which doesn´t quite fit with Max making an ill timed move to his left, which is what the complaints seem to be about. Raikkonen chose to try the inside line again after all, and probably everyone would have made the same call, but it was his call to put the car there in the first place.

The kid played dirty... kind of, maybe, but within the rules to the last comma. IMHO.
Yes, that's correct what you said. Only Max did not return to the racing line. He was on the inside at the entry of the corner. So that's the inside line, but not the racing line. Atleast that's my view (and for the record that's the view of a member; I'm nobody's superior in a discussion content-wise.).

I think discussing wordings of the regulations is far from ying yang. It's nothing against the driver; it could have been Steven Spielberg driving the Red Bull and Peter Jackson in the Ferrari; I'd still find it equally interesting to debate.
#AeroFrodo

ripper
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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Arrivabene said something that I didn't like at all: Next time that there are yellow flags he'll tell to the drivers to keep pushing and then they'll go speaking with the stewards.

This could lead to serious crashes, even if they slow down in the microsectors with yellow flags