2017 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 1-3 September

[Schuttelberg]

Why fake? I love Italy it's a great place to visit. But i think the reaction of the tiffosi was ridiculous. How do you know he wasn't being sincere? This 'microanalysing' is what leads to some ridiculous conclusions about people in the limelight. People who post will need to look at themselves

I'm not looking for your stamp of approval mate. I have my opinion and you have yours. Let's just leave it at that. It doesn't mean anything. What I LOVE is that there is passion. There is the fact that two great drivers are absolutely going ding dong at each other.. isn't that why we watch racing? I love it! I was pumped after the race!

Again nothing personal, but frankly I could care less about your stamp of approval either. You posted a subjective opinion which i replied to. I said exactly what I think of your post. But yes i am more than happy to leave it at that

Fair point.

[lio007]

Sorry for not reading the last 10 or so pages: can anybody tell me why palmer retired today?

Edit: ok, read their race report... It's been a transmission issue.

[Gothrek]

Tbh i wasn't even gonna respond to that post. Some stuff are not what responding to. It sounds like preconceived stuff ironically someone with half a brain would write. None of these people know him in personal life. I'll just add that i don't care where you're from, no one speaks for their whole country thankfully. I'm sure Lewis as well as other drivers have fans and none fans in all countries.

Of course I don't speak for my country, that is impossible. Also I used the word perceived a lot. I don't claim any of us know him. It is in general the way he is perceived here. That doesn't mean he has no fans. I know many Hamilton fans that don't care about the off track, but still mention they perceive him like this, but they don't care, because it is driving that they like. Fine for me, I am not here to convince anyone about certain points of view.
It has nothing to do with racism, if he would be white or red or yellow, I don't think the perception here would be any different. (Like where did I ever mention colour or race? lol ) The people calling this "blackish" culture on the other hand, they should have a look at themselves...

[PlatinumZealot]

In my country, many recognize Hamilton as a great driver, but he is perceived as a big douche because of his attitude. His attitude being his perceived fakeness, arrogance, his bling factor, etc. Basically he looks and talks like somebody with half a brain you find in any club. Does that make him a bad driver? no. But it is a factor why many people don't like him.
And I am from Belgium, so we don't have an agenda on Seb vs. Hamilton. We are already happy that we have a Belgian in F1.

I think perception is a fair argument. I don't agree that he talks like someone with half a brain, because he doesn't. To native English speakers he actually speaks in a very well behaved, mild mannered tone. People just have perceptions based on how others look most of the time. In Europe the "nice" guys don't dress like Hamilton, but maybe the thugs do, so in an instant they view him as cocky, arrogant and malicious. In the western part of the globe though, Hamilton's attire is quite normal for the young urban adult, and his behaviour is that of a nice suburban guy. He is no where close to being a "gangsta." You have to go to NFL to see the gangstas.

[Moose]

He was probably wishing he had been a Ferrari driver in that moment. Simply spectacular crowd, just driving for the wrong team.

I still think, Vettel may walk away from Singapore being the leader again. Much depends on how strong RedBull will be. We will see though... still a long season ahead.

Mercedes were really slow in 2015 at Singapore but in 2016 Rosberg put a decent performance and in 2014 Lewis did a fantastic job. Overall we can't say it's an anti-Mercedes track

It's not that it's anti-mercedes, it's that Ferrari have been incredibly strong in slow corners, so I fully expect them to dominate on the track with only slow corners.

[CBeck113]

I can't believe that this discussion is actually happening. Hamilton had a perfect race, and crushed Ferrari today, in their home...and being that Ferrari is actually in the fight for the WDC, they will be emotional and show their disappointment. Suddenly it's a problem to be emotional? Get off your high horses, this is for what we've all been begging - a tight fight for the title, and this is a part of it. I'm sure he won't have any emotional damage due to it, it's part of he game, and he is probably glad for the reason he was booed - I know I would be.

[Phil]

I apologize if my previous posts sounded too much like the ones of a frustrated fanboy but I was just trying, without succeeding, to make you understand why we are so whole-heartedly passionate about Ferrari.

Not at all, I well appreciate your honesty.

I just wanted to add that I believe Hamiltons problem is that he has effectively become a "brand", no different than Roger Federer and other very big sports personalties. This may be good overall for the sport, but it leaves a sour taste for those that follow the sport closer IMO.

That - in my opinion - makes drivers like Vettel and Schumacher be more likeable to many. Most who follow F1 can easier relate to them, because they seem more human, more flawed. And at least in Vettels case, well, after 4 years of Mercedes dominance, he's somewhat the underdog and everyone likes that.

Anyway, unfortunately I think there are two different things at play here. "Hamilton the person" and "Hamilton the brand". When you watch the interviews (the english ones), you can very well see Hamilton the person. When you read the sensationalist media, follow his Instagram, Hamilton the brand shines through. There's a lot more depth to Hamilton the person once you can see beyond what he is being portrayed as and once you look past the bling he wears. The good thing about Vettel (and others) is that he is just a F1 driver. He has a quiet life outside of F1 and I think deep down, most people would prefer that and easier relate to that kind of a driver than the extravagant type. I still maintain though, Hamilton the person isn't quite as extravagant as his image suggests.

[Moose]

That - in my opinion - makes drivers like Vettel and Schumacher be more likeable to many. Most who follow F1 can easier relate to them, because they seem more human, more flawed. And at least in Vettels case, well, after 4 years of Mercedes dominance, he's somewhat the underdog and everyone likes that.

I don't think that that's a fair assessment of the situation. Hamilton was equally hated by a decent chunk of fans when he was more flawed and volatile. People claimed that it was his partying and his culture that made him too volatile to safely race in F1. Vettel behaved in a much more dangerous way in Baku than Hamilton ever has, but because of some reason, he still had people defending him, and telling us that he has a much better temperament.

Meanwhile, Hamilton has learnt to control his emotions, and race in a more analytical way, and now we have people telling us that he's a faker, and that all the things he loves are just there to reinforce a brand.

You can't have it both ways, and trying to have it both ways comes across as "well, I don't like his skin colour or culture and therefore I'm going to make assumptions about him being a bad person"

[zeph]

Verstappen's market value probably dropped quite a bit today. Perception matters. Regardless of who was at fault, all those DNFs and other mishaps will no longer be perceived to all be down to bad luck.

I would think so. He is quick, but he still has much to learn. Unfortunately, sometimes he sounds like he believes his own hype. His father Jos was over-confident as well, and it got him nowhere.

Max would be wise to learn some humility; I don't think anybody questions his talent, but a racing career is not built on talent alone.

[Restomaniac]

I totally agree with you. The fact about bling is exactly what I was referring too. Also, and maybe this is only on the Italian Sky, they always ask him about why he doesn't handshakes with Seb after races, and he always tries to escape those type of questions, so I guess he's been pictured like the man lacking ogni sportsmanship and fair play.
I don't follow pilots on social media because I'm not so interested about seeing every aspect of their life. They have to prove me what they're worth of on the track, not on instagram.
And in fact, sticking to racing and performance, except about the Baku incident, I really can't say anything bad about Lewis. He's impressive when it comes to qualy and I love when he's driving like crazy to gain seconds and you hear him panting on the radio.
I mainly watch F1 for the engineering aspects being myself an engineering student and I wanna see Ferrari pushing their development to the limit to try and get to the Merc level.
Also, I guess that everyone agrees on this, having a same level of performance car between Seb and Lewis would be amazing for the show.

I apologize if my previous posts sounded too much like the ones of a frustrated fanboy but I was just trying, without succeeding, to make you understand why we are so whole-heartedly passionate about Ferrari.

He shock his hand today and then after being booed he went out of his way to make sure that Vettel was involved in the group hug. How very cocky. Who does he think he is, maybe SKY Italia can ask him why he did such things? Or maybe they won't because it doesn't suit their agenda.

I'm not referring to today's handshakes. The interviews I referred to were from a few GPs back. Like before and after Baku.

You expected him to shake the hand of the guy who drive into him behind the safety car and then got nothing more than a slapped wrist for it? Somewhat understandable wouldn't you say.

Before that Hamilton and Vettel had a full bromance going on. Me thinks you are SKY Italia are seeing things that are not there.

[ringo]

Interesting discussion but in a twisted way i liked the booing today. It showed the raw emotions. Im not justifying or encouraginng this kind of behavior but i think it has happened and its just the fans enjoying themselves at ferrari 70th and displaying their support for ferrari more than their hate of lewis the villian.
Its a bit hooliganish but this happens when u have large crowds of people drinking and getting vibed up.

The races was good in my book. Bottas earned his placed my manhandling kimi and the others getting up to p2. I dont think rosberg would have done it so forcefully and quickly.

Vettel was good as well and danny. Kimi seems like a confused old man. I can't beleive they renewed his contract.

Good job from stroll and ocon. Though i beleive a swap with massa earlier on would have done the job.to overtake ocon.

Alonso starting to look like a bad comedian these days trundling around in the orange lawnmower. Very corrosive guy. I dont see why any team would want him. He talks too much trash on the radio. Its funny but adds too much pressure to the team.

Max to me is starting look ordinary and short sighted. He isnt as complete a driver as ocon. He childishly is too impatient. I saw signs of this even from qualifying. He didnt want to use the inters because they take long to warm. Today he didnt want to wait to overtake massa. And many other instances where he is just not able to see the big picture. He is just obsessed with trying to be like senna but in the wrong way. He wastes effort and energy on little uneccessary scuffles with midfielders. By years end he wont be seen as hot property. Too much of a liability.

[Unc1eM0nty]

Verstappen's market value probably dropped quite a bit today. Perception matters. Regardless of who was at fault, all those DNFs and other mishaps will no longer be perceived to all be down to bad luck.

I would think so. He is quick, but he still has much to learn. Unfortunately, sometimes he sounds like he believes his own hype. His father Jos was over-confident as well, and it got him nowhere.

Max would be wise to learn some humility; I don't think anybody questions his talent, but a racing career is not built on talent alone.

He got a great start but it just wasn't enough for him, this made him push it even further to the point when it all fell apart from him.

Its a fine line, judging the risk of pushing harder, against consolidating the gains he'd already made.

With all his talent its easy to forget just how young he is, hopefully by the time he's fighting for a title he will have learned these hard lessons.

[ringo]

He should learn from daniel. Daniel only is on edge when its needed.
Max is driving balls to the wall when he doesnt have to.
He needs to save the 100% for the top vars like ferrari and mercedes.
Daniel may seem much slower because he is more cautious. But he waits tikl the race takes shape before he starts picking off cars one by one.
I want to see max try and make it to at least half way before he meets in an accident or loses and engine.

[ringo]

dont you just hate that guy!! Disturbing the peace with his fakeness and bravado!!

[fabian77]

I am not sure when was Vettel booed in Silverstone? I am sure there was a roar when his tyre blew. Just the same roar that we heard in Malaysia when Lewis' PU went pop. If you are equating that to booing, you probably need to understand what booing near podium means.

More so, Vettel was already a villain with his antics at Baku and if people got excited to see his tyre blew, there is nothing to complain about.

Lewis has always appreciated the crowds coming over to races, thanks them for support, engages with them and instead of enjoying one of the fantastic displays of qualifying and race performance, these sore losers boo him for doing a great job.

https://youtu.be/pWYKRVrd75g

This is what I am talking about disgraceful from the crowd. Like the old saying says, those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Its bad sportsmanship from the crowd like it was at monza today, im not defending them just pointing it out the brits are no better.

Yes because that is exactly the same as booing the winner on the podium.......Oh wait no if isn't

Maybe you should learn to read I am talking about crowd SPORTMANSHIP not about what happens only on the podium.