2018 Monaco Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, May 24-27

[gshevlin]

There are no regulations forbidding collaboration in races between teams as far as I know. Ferrari are notorious for expecting their customer teams to do their bidding in races if required. Norberto Fontana claimed after his retirement as a driver that Sauber (powered by Ferrari at the time) had instructed him to hold up Jacques Villeneuve in 1997 in Spain so that Michael Schumacher could catch and pass him. It is also no coincidence to me that two of the most blatant uses of team orders in recent years (one legal at the time, one illegal but not practically provable) were by Ferrari.
However, what the FIA and Formula 1 in general never seem to understand is that this kind of arrangement, when actually used, looks really really bad to anybody not in the teams. In other words, just about every spectator and fan. To use an old political cliche, it is bad optics. It makes F1 look like a fixed show, not a sporting competition.

[TwanV]

Not sure what Ferrari has to do with this particular incident, I've never seen anything worse really than what Ocon is saying. Mercedes can't go any lower than this.. Good that Ocon at least dares to name the problem but he should be ashamed too for complying. Toto Wolff's comments if quoted correctly: "That's the way it is." Shocked, they have lost all connection to their audience.

[fiohaa]

remember those days when all the cars could refuel.
And they'd all be running close to qualifying laptimes, and it was relentless. Remember how the cars used to scream through swimming pool on the absolute edge.
Remember how we'd see a schumacher or a montoya or a raikonnen stay out with the heavier fuel load sacrificed in quali - to then put in a spectacle of laptimes to leapfrog in the pits to gain track position?

recently i think it was james allison who said "well we looked at refueling, it would be less exciting because there wouldn't be any difference in strategy".
well. the last two races, especially monaco, is an example of just how awful F1 has become.
I literally fell asleep on lap 18 after a heavy lunch and woke up an hour later. Had to go back on my sky+ and rewatch.

[siskue2005]

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/1548 ... in-monaco/

If this was made between Seb and Charles Leclerc… it would be talked for years. Does FIA have a sensor to this?

last year the Haas team would just jump out of the way for the ferraris, i didnt see anyone crying over it

[siskue2005]

Not sure what Ferrari has to do with this particular incident, I've never seen anything worse really than what Ocon is saying. Mercedes can't go any lower than this.. Good that Ocon at least dares to name the problem but he should be ashamed too for complying. Toto Wolff's comments if quoted correctly: "That's the way it is." Shocked, they have lost all connection to their audience.

Where were you guys when Haas team was effectively a "previous year Ferrari car" who would jump out of the way of the ferraris in 2017 and also in 2018?? Why isnt Magnussen moving over for Vettel in spain 2018 so that he could jump Bottas any better?? in my opinion it is far worse than what happened in Monaco 2018.

[TwanV]

Not sure what Ferrari has to do with this particular incident, I've never seen anything worse really than what Ocon is saying. Mercedes can't go any lower than this.. Good that Ocon at least dares to name the problem but he should be ashamed too for complying. Toto Wolff's comments if quoted correctly: "That's the way it is." Shocked, they have lost all connection to their audience.

Where were you guys when Haas team was effectively a "previous year Ferrari car" who would jump out of the way of the ferraris in 2017 and also in 2018?? Why isnt Magnussen moving over for Vettel in spain 2018 so that he could jump Bottas any better?? in my opinion it is far worse than what happened in Monaco 2018.

Any such behaviour or clauses of the like spell like cheating to me. I have not really noticed the same with the Haas guys but I'm not Ferrari focussed anyway. On normal circuits drivers go out of the way very easily to not spoil their own race, nothing wrong with that. To do an inter-teamorder in Monaco though is just really painful for us all to see.

[Phil]

IMHO team orders should be confined to the team itself, e.g. no orders to partner teams. If that is allowed, then what will stop (smaller) teams from making deals with bigger teams under the table for money “hey, i’ll let driver A through but not driver Q”.

[Restomaniac]

Not sure what Ferrari has to do with this particular incident, I've never seen anything worse really than what Ocon is saying. Mercedes can't go any lower than this.. Good that Ocon at least dares to name the problem but he should be ashamed too for complying. Toto Wolff's comments if quoted correctly: "That's the way it is." Shocked, they have lost all connection to their audience.

Where were you guys when Haas team was effectively a "previous year Ferrari car" who would jump out of the way of the ferraris in 2017 and also in 2018?? Why isnt Magnussen moving over for Vettel in spain 2018 so that he could jump Bottas any better?? in my opinion it is far worse than what happened in Monaco 2018.

I actually did make reference to it as well as this year and I Included the Sauber to Ferrari. I also made the FI to Mercedes and the STR to RB connection too.
It stinks. It’s bad enough when 2nd drivers act like scolded cats FFS.

[notsofast]

The only problem with orders/arrangements between teams is that the teams keep quiet about them. As long as the spectators know what's going on, there's no problem. We are currently in an era that is dominated by the engine manufacturers. F1 is simply a competition between four parties: Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault, and Honda. I don't care what agreements the teams with Mercedes engines make among themselves, as long as they are open about it. If I know that Ocon is going to wave Hamilton by, then no problem. If I don't know it, and if I'm hoping for Ocon to keep Hamilton behind him, and if I find out later it was all a farce, then yes, problem.

[Big Tea]

Only a personal opinion, but I see no problem when a B team sacrifices slightly more of their own time to let their 'friends' through, as long as it does not work the other way with them holding up others.


It is natural that if a car is told by blue flags they are to be passed by leaders they try to do it an the way that costs them least. Don't compare the behavior with the buddy team car compare it with all the others in which the car concerned has no stake. If they are holding up, there are rules in place for it, and there are no rules about getting out of the way too soon.

If this is STR for RED Bull, Haas for Ferrari or FI for Merc.
poor old Renault. They have to ask Mclaren to step asside

[Schuttelberg]

The media is so hypocritical it makes me want to vomit. What happened with the Mercedes and Force India is just lousy. The same media pundits accuse Ferrari of team orders without any proof and diss it like it's a sin. Here we have two teams colluding in a competitive environment and it's just fine. Shame!

I also don't understand the reference to Spain 1997. So what if Schumacher & Ferrari did it back then? It was wrong then and it's wrong now. Just because a legendary team and driver did so doesn't mean it's right. Fans deserve to see competition. F1 is anyway very sterilised and robotic. This is the tipping point.

[Phil]

I completely agree team orders that extend beyond your team should not be allowed nor tolerated, but at least you cant complain about Mercedes acting as if there wasnt any team order involved.

Then again, if RedBull did it using Torro Rosso (which is owned by them anyway), what would you say? Where do you draw the line? Junior team? Partner team? Customer team? Affiliated team?

[atanatizante]

I can`t figure out how Vettel had lost this race, coz Ricci was 30km/h down at the end of the tunnel and Vettel couldn`t get near him not to mention pass him. The only reason I could see is that he was massively fuel managing bearing in mind we had no safety car ... I don`t think that crap excuse at the press conference when he said his front tyres were graining and he couldn`t get a good exit in Portier heading for the tunnel in order to have a good getaway ...

[Jolle]

I can`t figure out how Vettel had lost this race, coz Ricci was 30km/h down at the end of the tunnel and Vettel couldn`t get near him not to mention pass him. The only reason I could see is that he was massively fuel managing bearing in mind we had no safety car ... I don`t think that crap excuse at the press conference when he said his front tyres were graining and he couldn`t get a good exit in Portier heading for the tunnel in order to have a good getaway ...

Vettel managing fuel wouldn’t be an issue. Go for 100% fuel flow for a few laps, gain track position and, especially with a limping car behind you, you could almost come to a stand still, save all the fuel you want.

Apparently, overtaking a car in Monaco that is brilliant under braking and super in/out of corners is very very difficult.

Plus, Vettel lost the championship last year by not seeing the big picture. Hamilton had a 100% finish score last year, taking a risk, especially when you already in front of him, is not done. I think we’ll have a very well behaved and calculating Vettel this year.

[Bill_Kar]

I can`t figure out how Vettel had lost this race, coz Ricci was 30km/h down at the end of the tunnel and Vettel couldn`t get near him not to mention pass him. The only reason I could see is that he was massively fuel managing bearing in mind we had no safety car ... I don`t think that crap excuse at the press conference when he said his front tyres were graining and he couldn`t get a good exit in Portier heading for the tunnel in order to have a good getaway ...

Plus, Vettel lost the championship last year by not seeing the big picture. Hamilton had a 100% finish score last year, taking a risk, especially when you already in front of him, is not done. I think we’ll have a very well behaved and calculating Vettel this year.

TBH, Monaco wasn't a sign for this, we don't know what would have happened if he was able to close down and attempt something. The only indication was the badly calculated maneuver in Baku.