2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.
GrandAxe
19
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:06 pm

Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by GrandAxe » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:54 am

Restomaniac wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:21 pm
GrandAxe wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:03 pm
Restomaniac wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:51 pm
Not true. Their crap shoot in China has already gifted Verstappen 2 extra points.
Its even more than 2 points, its 5. Just look at the points awarded for each place:

3rd place 15 points
4th place 12 points
5th place 10 points

If not for team orders, Leclerc and Vettel would have finished 3rd and 4th ahead of Max in 5th.

The current WDC for the three drivers is:

3 Max 39
4 Vettel 37
5 Lecerc 36

If Vettel had finished 3rd and Leclerc 4th, it would have been:

3 Vettel 40
4 Leclerc 38
5 Max 34

If instead, Leclerc had finished 3rd and Vettel 4th, it would have been:

3 Leclerc 41
4 Vettel 37
5 Max 34
Verstappen finished 4th(12) though. He should have finished 5th(10).
That's right indeed.

GrandAxe
19
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:06 pm

Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by GrandAxe » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:56 am

dans79 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:28 pm
GrandAxe wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:49 pm
In this way, any one who runs off after a championship has deeply wronged that sport; further, it only gives the distinct impression that deep in their minds they do not feel they earned it, but were simply lucky.
GrandAxe wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:49 pm
A person who doesn't feel up to the task has no right whatsoever to comment on those who who can, especially drivers who are single or multiple WDC's (Kimi, Alonso, Vettel and Lewis). It doesn't speak of character.
I'm going to take it that you have never been a very competitive athlete of any form? As someone who has, I find both of these statements utterly ludicrous.
I take it you weren't a great if you ran away as an athlete?

Mach
0
User avatar
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:25 pm

Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by Mach » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:58 am

siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:11 am
Mach wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:57 pm
Mercs are just too strong....once again :roll:
Didn't see you at Bahrain =P~
:lol:
Well, this race was boring.
Mercedes should run away with it once again

langedweil
4
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:51 pm

Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by langedweil » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:00 am

GrandAxe wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:49 pm
Vasconia wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:59 am
GrandAxe wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:40 am


You've just listed many of the reasons many don't like to see Nico commenting around the paddock. He won a championship and failed to defend it, which is the minimum expected of a champion to keep any sport going or interesting.

Imagine if Schumacher have retired after his first WDC, or Usain Bolt after his first medal, or Muhammed Ali after his first knock out etc.

There is something wrong about someone who ran off, only to come back and talk so much about the abilities of others who have stuck in the heat for the benefit of the sport.
It is disrespectful, especially to the other WDC's on the grid (Lewis - 5 time, Seb - 4 time, Kimi 1 time and last year, Alonso - 2 time).

Sky most likely brought him back for the controversy, in this brand new world of click marketing and zero values.
Your hate for Nico make you say some very weird things. As any other driver he has the right to comment the races. In which dimension is this to be disrespectful? You can criticize that he lef the sport without defending the title but he had the right to do and this has nothing to do with his role as a commentator.
"Hate"? Use of such strong words hint at a personal attack, which is the ultimate giveaway of a person who is empty off any valid counter-argument.

Sports revolves around champions proving their pedigree and awing the spectators - at the heart of sport is the very fundamental ethos of competition. Any sport will soon wither and die without worthy champions.
In this way, any one who runs off after a championship has deeply wronged that sport; further, it only gives the distinct impression that deep in their minds they do not feel they earned it, but were simply lucky.

Would there be any great drivers today if they all docked the challenge? Fangio, Lauda, Schumacher, Alonso, Vettel, Lewis etc?

A person who doesn't feel up to the task has no right whatsoever to comment on those who who can, especially drivers who are single or multiple WDC's (Kimi, Alonso, Vettel and Lewis). It doesn't speak of character. This is especially worse when most of the time what is said turns out to be either inadequate or remarkably flippant, a breach of trust or even insulting e.g. Ferrari staff telling him they got their aero wrong.
Amen .. really nothing to add here.

Schuttelberg
67
User avatar
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:02 am

Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by Schuttelberg » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:28 am

I love how some pundits are now already saying the championships are over for Ferrari, just like it was over for Mercedes after testing. :lol:
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

Just_a_fan
470
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:43 am

If you're a pundit you have to be heard saying something. It doesn't really matter what you say, sadly. Silence is death to a pundit.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

e30ernest
1
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:47 am

Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by e30ernest » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:41 am

Speaking of pundits, here's Marc's analysis of the race:


sAx
6
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by sAx » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:52 am

Jolle wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:20 am
turbof1 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:57 am
I don't want to paint Ferrari as "the bad guys" like that either. They have their own rational reasons and the switch at the time was logical. Vettel was faster at that point in time. But they should switched back when it was clear Vettel was not making inroads. It is too early in the season to put such burdens on the team. Good thing is: Leclerc is a good, humble and patient person. He will be able to put the decisions in context, but he will also defy team orders when the occasion is right, like in Bahrain. Ferrari has to respect he is not a walkover, and that Leclerc's patience should also be rewarded.

Team dynamics, people.
In the history of F1 we had this scenario a few times, a young fast contender pairing up with a multiple world champion. All of these gave us, the viewers, epic seasons that we are still talking about to date. 1986/87 where young Nigel was challenging Piquet.....
A 33/34yo Mansell was not that young by the contemporary standards of the day.
Integrity, Trust, Respect.

Follow me: http://twitter.com/#!/sAx247

Jolle
154
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by Jolle » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:09 pm

sAx wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:52 am
Jolle wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:20 am
turbof1 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:57 am
I don't want to paint Ferrari as "the bad guys" like that either. They have their own rational reasons and the switch at the time was logical. Vettel was faster at that point in time. But they should switched back when it was clear Vettel was not making inroads. It is too early in the season to put such burdens on the team. Good thing is: Leclerc is a good, humble and patient person. He will be able to put the decisions in context, but he will also defy team orders when the occasion is right, like in Bahrain. Ferrari has to respect he is not a walkover, and that Leclerc's patience should also be rewarded.

Team dynamics, people.
In the history of F1 we had this scenario a few times, a young fast contender pairing up with a multiple world champion. All of these gave us, the viewers, epic seasons that we are still talking about to date. 1986/87 where young Nigel was challenging Piquet.....
A 33/34yo Mansell was not that young by the contemporary standards of the day.
He was a bit older indeed, but ticks all the other boxes. He’s a late bloomer. Young in F1 years :P when he was teamed up with Piquet, Nelson was already a 2 time world champion with seven seasons under his belt. Mansell, had, like Senna later, three and a bit years of Lotus.

Just_a_fan
470
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:26 pm

Mansell also did it himself. He self-funded his early career including remortgaging his house at one point. That's a level of commitment the youngsters don't understand.

He was probably the last of the old school racing drivers. A real racer, that's for sure.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

turbof1
Moderator
User avatar
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:36 pm
Location: MountDoom CFD Matrix

Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by turbof1 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:42 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:26 pm
Mansell also did it himself. He self-funded his early career including remortgaging his house at one point. That's a level of commitment the youngsters don't understand.

He was probably the last of the old school racing drivers. A real racer, that's for sure.
I think very few youngsters in his day would have gone to that extreme too :P . But yeah, he was extremely committed.
#AeroFrodo

NL_Fer
54
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:48 am

Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by NL_Fer » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:21 pm

Boah, Alex Albon was dumped by the Redbull program. Fought his way back to a F2 drive. Didn’t get much attention for whole season until hey finished 3rd in the championship.

Look what he is doing now.

siskue2005
146
User avatar
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by siskue2005 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:56 pm

Mach wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:58 am
siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:11 am
Mach wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:57 pm
Mercs are just too strong....once again :roll:
Didn't see you at Bahrain =P~
:lol:
Well, this race was boring.
Mercedes should run away with it once again
Because of the incompetence from their rival....cant blame them for doing their job

But my question still stands...didnt see you at Bahrain with the same quote ("Ferrari are too strong")? as from the above quote it is evident that you posted it after China qualifying.

Instead, you should post, Ferrari and RBR et al are too incompetent again from here on :lol: :lol:
Last edited by siskue2005 on Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hollus
Moderator
User avatar
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:21 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by hollus » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:24 pm

Regarding a possible disadvantage by starting in the "clean side". It is possible that it is not the clean side as much as the pole position itself that is a disadvantage. In all three races the pole sitter got mugged after the start, but for example in China Vettel had a superb start from 3rd.
Bottas complained that the start-finish line itself compromised his start, as he was still so slow when the his tires go over it while the others were already faster. He literally said that it started the wheelspin. He also said that next time he might do a burnout in the warm-up lap just to have black rubber on the white line. Against that theory, though, he also said that only in China the line was so thick.
It is hard to see it in the rears in this video, but the front wobbles a bit right as his rears pass the line: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKfmiAYiC-M
In Australia it isn't so clear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdD8gEGj0to
But in Bahrain one can see Leclerc's car losing the rear just after the start line: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VjWY--QdMA.
It is not white, it is not black, it is probably gray.

dans79
195
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by dans79 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:42 pm

The Italian press are already taking bites out of Ferrari 3 races into the season.

http://www.grandprix.com/news/nothing-f ... ettel.html
Corriere della Sera said Ferrari appeared "slow, confused and chaotic" in Shanghai.

"All of Ferrari's problems came to light on a complex track like China, and internal problems between the drivers threaten to break out completely."
La Gazzetta dello Sport says Ferrari's winter test promise "has disappeared, sunk by controversial decisions such as the one giving preference to Vettel".