[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[Jackles-UK]

If it’s just a new exhaust and a new engine cover then they will have seriously dodged a bullet but, given the amount of ancillaries and electrical components in that area, that would be a huge slice of luck. We all saw the damage that was done to Stroll’s Racing Point in Mugello from residual engine heat (albeit at much higher ambient temperatures) so I’d be astounded if there wasn’t some damage done elsewhere.

In some ways I feel the truncated running this weekend affected McLaren more than most, so being as competitive as they were was actually a decent result in some ways. Having a big new upgrade package that they sort of had to run for qualifying despite losing three of the usual four hours of free practice would’ve definitely put them on the back foot - particularly as they’d also have to get all their usual tyre/fuel/deployment data at temperatures they hadn’t seen all year and at an unfamiliar track that neither driver has driven in top class competition.

[diffuser]

That's weird. Didn't he have ERS issues when he started reporting the engine problems? Is the exhaust a McLaren part? I wonder if the weather conditions had any role in all the engine problems we saw today. (Apart from Albon which was something external)

I agree, I think the exhaust is a McLaren part. It is part of the PU packaging. Renault tell them the Turbo requirements and McLaren build it to suit their packaging needs.

If the exhaust cracked there would be alot of heat there.

The ignition system malfunctioned causing un-burnt fuel to enter the exhaust and overheat it.

Aaaah.

[CjC]

So to have a joke in the light of despair is against the rules?

My reference to the failures was for today and Spa.
And also the failures Torro Rosso has to endure towards the end of the ‘17 season which left Franz Tost a tad bit frustrated.

I don’t believe it’s the case mind you, you can’t just switch off a car mid race but the controversy the topic causes is quite fun

The SPA event was a exhaust problems. Sainz is still using that same PU(ICE,TC,MGU-H,MGU-K). Not sure why it cracked.

You take the 2017 STR incident as a fact but it was just Hearsay. It was denied by Renault. All the infighting between RBR and Renault at that point, it's hard to beleive either one of them.

Hearsay or fact it’s all why we enjoy such an entertaining sport.

Heard something Crofty said during commentary about Andreas Seidl saying a PU is caput. Who’s PU was he taking about? Was it the one Sainz smashed up in the second of his two Sochi crashes? I thought Lando had a new PU this race.... that’s where my confusion lies

Seidl was taking about the PU they had to change on Landos car after qualifying.

So that’s one Renault failure for Sainz and 2 Renault failures for Lando. That’s plural I believe?

Before anyone defends Renault- in the case of Sainzs DNS and Landos DNF any unburnt fuel leaking into the exhaust from the ignition chamber is a Renault failure.
Regardless that ultimately it was the exhaust that cracked/ failed whether it’s built by Mclaren or Renault the failure started in the ICE and resulted in another part overheating to failure.

[diffuser]

The SPA event was a exhaust problems. Sainz is still using that same PU(ICE,TC,MGU-H,MGU-K). Not sure why it cracked.

You take the 2017 STR incident as a fact but it was just Hearsay. It was denied by Renault. All the infighting between RBR and Renault at that point, it's hard to beleive either one of them.

Hearsay or fact it’s all why we enjoy such an entertaining sport.

Heard something Crofty said during commentary about Andreas Seidl saying a PU is caput. Who’s PU was he taking about? Was it the one Sainz smashed up in the second of his two Sochi crashes? I thought Lando had a new PU this race.... that’s where my confusion lies

Seidl was taking about the PU they had to change on Landos car after qualifying.

So that’s one Renault failure for Sainz and 2 Renault failures for Lando. That’s plural I believe?

Before anyone defends Renault- in the case of Sainzs DNS and Landos DNF any unburnt fuel leaking into the exhaust from the ignition chamber is a Renault failure.
Regardless that ultimately it was the exhaust that cracked/ failed whether it’s built by Mclaren or Renault the failure started in the ICE and resulted in another part overheating to failure.

I just don't beleive in the consipiracy Theories. There have been more Merc PU failures at the customer teams than at Merc works. So are they worried that Williams will catch them in the points?

[CjC]

I wanted to leave the conspiracy stuff where we left it but it’s tagged at the beginning of the quote i wanted to use

It’s a valid point you make, Merc haven’t been flawless this year.
It wouldnt surprise me that we have to endure these failures and possible grid penalties with Renault to then have the class leading PU fitted in the back of our car next year only for Merc to suddenly really struggle with reliability

It wouldn’t be right to be a Mclaren fan and have it plain sailing

[McG]

Don't believe in the conspiracy stuff either. There's enough crazy stuff going on in the business side that they keep the on track stuff as sporting as possible, well, maybe not Ferrari but the rest are largely very sporting.

[mwillems]

Don't believe in the conspiracy stuff either. There's enough crazy stuff going on in the business side that they keep the on track stuff as sporting as possible, well, maybe not Ferrari but the rest are largely very sporting.

You know that they are watching you type...

[Jolle]

Could it be... that the Mercedes works team is not only pushing their PU less hard then their customers but also have better integration of cooling, auxiliaries and other stuff?

[SmallSoldier]

Could it be... that the Mercedes works team is not only pushing their PU less hard then their customers but also have better integration of cooling, auxiliaries and other stuff?

You might be into something


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[diffuser]

Don't believe in the conspiracy stuff either. There's enough crazy stuff going on in the business side that they keep the on track stuff as sporting as possible, well, maybe not Ferrari but the rest are largely very sporting.

You know that they are watching you type...

LOL

[McG]

Don't believe in the conspiracy stuff either. There's enough crazy stuff going on in the business side that they keep the on track stuff as sporting as possible, well, maybe not Ferrari but the rest are largely very sporting.

You know that they are watching you type...

Oh I know they are, but not they in F1!

[Chicane]

Mercedes has two customers already and one thing they are very good at it is fixing the issues on an urgent basis. The PU will make yet another step next season as Mercedes continue to adapt their PU to operate on a single ICE mode.

For McLaren they have had experience with every type of PU layout since the introduction of this engine formula. McLaren complete a full circle going from Mercedes to Honda to Renault and now back to Mercedes . The integration should go smoothly by and large barring a few niggling issues.

McLaren will gain aerodynamically at the rear with a more compactly packaged Mercedes PU. The weight distribution will be better with a split turbo layout and the cooling demands of the Mercedes PU are modest compared to the Renault.

McLaren are trying to understand the impact of 2021 nose downstream and all this pain that they are going through now will be worth it. Without any Friday running and back to back comparison you cannot t extract the maximum potential of the aero package. I think by the end of the season McLaren will have a solid understanding of the new aero bits.

[diffuser]

Mercedes has two customers already and one thing they are very good at it is fixing the issues on an urgent basis. The PU will make yet another step next season as Mercedes continue to adapt their PU to operate on a single ICE mode.

For McLaren they have had experience with every type of PU layout since the introduction of this engine formula. McLaren complete a full circle going from Mercedes to Honda to Renault and now back to Mercedes . The integration should go smoothly by and large barring a few niggling issues.

McLaren will gain aerodynamically at the rear with a more compactly packaged Mercedes PU. The weight distribution will be better with a split turbo layout and the cooling demands of the Mercedes PU are modest compared to the Renault.

McLaren are trying to understand the impact of 2021 nose downstream and all this pain that they are going through now will be worth it. Without any Friday running and back to back comparison you cannot t extract the maximum potential of the aero package. I think by the end of the season McLaren will have a solid understanding of the new aero bits.

I like the positive outlook, but there are limited resources. Those resources are being stretch even further in 2021. The odds are against them not having more that just nagging issues. In fact I'm pretty sure they're going ahead with PU change in 2021 because their real goal is to be ready for 2022 and those aero changes. They're expecting issues.

By looking at the rear of the Merc, they have a wider car. Merc have had cooling problems at hot races in recent years so not sure about that. I don't know about the difference in the cooling requirements.

Renault have a big PU change to split turbo coming. That too will likely come with many issues. So they'll be saving themselves that.

[Emag]

Zak said on the beyond the grid podcasts that they are expecting some gains from the engine. Either Mercedes has given them data about the engine that leads them to believe so, or they are just approximating based on gps data.

The thing that gives me hope is that Mercedes developed this year's power unit to compete and beat the illegal engine Ferrari had last year. I am guessing Ferrari "peaked the illegality" around Belgium when the streak of poles for Leclerc started. Look what Lewis had to say about that : https://www.crash.net/f1/news/928195/1/ ... -straights

That number may be a little exaggerated, but I doubt Lewis pulled that out of his ass. The team probably came up with that number from gps data. And to be honest, if Ferrari's issues this year are strictly related to the power unit, then that 1 second may not be too farfetched. Regardless, that beast of a (illegal) engine, was the primary target for Mercedes. The power unit they developed this year was meant to fight with the tremendous power that Ferrari had last year. And I think they made a big jump compared to 2019.

Even if the gain from the Renault engine is just 2 tenths, over 50 laps that's 10 seconds. That 10 seconds could make all the difference in the world next year if the midfield remains as tight as it is this year. And obviously, the higher they finish next year (and this year for that matter), the more money they can invest for 2022.

[M840TR]

Mercedes has two customers already and one thing they are very good at it is fixing the issues on an urgent basis. The PU will make yet another step next season as Mercedes continue to adapt their PU to operate on a single ICE mode.

For McLaren they have had experience with every type of PU layout since the introduction of this engine formula. McLaren complete a full circle going from Mercedes to Honda to Renault and now back to Mercedes . The integration should go smoothly by and large barring a few niggling issues.

McLaren will gain aerodynamically at the rear with a more compactly packaged Mercedes PU. The weight distribution will be better with a split turbo layout and the cooling demands of the Mercedes PU are modest compared to the Renault.

McLaren are trying to understand the impact of 2021 nose downstream and all this pain that they are going through now will be worth it. Without any Friday running and back to back comparison you cannot t extract the maximum potential of the aero package. I think by the end of the season McLaren will have a solid understanding of the new aero bits.

I'll add a few points to this rather starchy portrait by saying that Mclaren went through 1 more PU change in 2017 with Honda shifting to a split-turbo layout. That's a shift in 2014, 2015, 2017 and then 2018, all for entirely distinctive engines. That surely must've honed their integration skills a bit.

The Mercedes PU also is more compact in the middle - look at the RP or the Williams's intercooler packaging for example.

As for the nose, I don't agree that it cost lap-time. The Renaults and RPs were on average a tenth or two ahead by Silverstone and Norris with the new nose in Nurburgring demonstrated that they carried over that gap. Sainz's was the only Mclaren beckoning a bit of head-scratching. But what do you expect after significantly altering the bargeboards without the concomitant setup alterations - at the top, the 2 downwash vortex generators were replaced for 5 smaller yet conventional ones, and at the bottom outwash section the downward angled fins are now blunted.

However, this doesn't account for Norris reverting to a pre-Sochi setup. Given that the new nose and front-wing remained untouched, he must be referring to some underlying changes, which regardless indicates to no-flaws in the aero updates.