2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

[mem]

As for the rest of the race? What race?

yeah indeed what race ? we had some Mclaren fans were having a heart attack while Sainz closing on Gasly , Honda fans screaming defend your position Gasly , but no we must watch the great Hamilton cruising to wins like happy monkeys clapping their hands and feet week after week right RIGHT , what a dystopian state of reality.

[Moore77]

It’s just been too long Ago the previous time the pitlane was closed. People easily forget what to do. Even a top team. No warning at all to Lewis. Just like last year Mexico when RBR failed to get on the radio to Max to say yellow abort lap, pole is safe. They had like 30 seconds back then. Nothing. This time around they had less time, but still, as soon as the pitlane is closed the race engineer should come on the radio. Pit closed, stay out.

And yes, the drivers themselves should also remain vigilant. They are top class in a professional series. We can think of excuses, and that’s also fine to do, but better not do that. Swallow the pill, learn from it and internalize it for the next race.

It shouldn't be dependent on radio or electronic marker boards though, everything should have a physical equivalent which cannot fail, and cannot be disputed. That's true for every other type of flag or the "SC" board, but that's simply not true for the pit lane closure, and it needs to be fixed. This race is done, the result is the result and the rules were the rules at the time, but that doesn't mean the rules can't be improved as a result of this.

EDIT: To add, if pitlane closure is something that changes from circuit to circuit because of the nature of the facilities i.e. some may have a traffic light system whereas others don't, then this is something that MUST always be covered in the pre-race drivers briefing conducted by the race director.

[enri_the_red]

...
EDIT: To add, if pitlane closure is something that changes from circuit to circuit because of the nature of the facilities i.e. some may have a traffic light system whereas others don't, then this is something that MUST always be covered in the pre-race drivers briefing conducted by the race director.

The status of the pitlane is always expressed by means of one or two light panels. They display an arrow if the cars are required to follow the safety car through the pitlane or a red cross if the pitlane is closed. The position of these panels is specified in the pitlane map provided to the teams in the "Race Directors' Event Notes" along with all the other track-specific rules.

[SiLo]

In the case the pitlane is closed for safety reasons, I think there should be a radio message relayed to all drivers via FIA broadcast. In fact, I think this should be a thing for most things that have to get announced. Safety car out? Pit entry closed? Pit exit closed? Debris at a corner?

A simple and effective solution that would stop a lot of these issues.

[komninosm]

In one lap? No way. If that was the case, Bottas's engine would have being a molten puddle on the track by lap 5.

It might have been if they didn't change out the body work during the red flag.

Like this?
https://www.racefans.net/2020/09/06/ver ... etirement/

Lap 28 Verstappen Three cars pass Verstappen at the restart.
The fu ck!ng engine is hot, mate. What a joke.
28 To Verstappen: Mode six.
28 Verstappen: It’s still hot. I mean, what do you want me to do?
29 To Verstappen: Nothing for the moment.
29 Verstappen: Another car passes Mate, what can I do?
29 To Verstappen: Stand by Max, I’ll get back to you.
29 Verstappen: It’s not working. It’s fu cked.
29 To Verstappen: Engine 13 position nine please Max.
29 To Verstappen: Engine one position seven.
30 Verstappen: Fukc.
30 Verstappen: It’s still broken.
30 To Verstappen: Stand by, Max.
30 To Verstappen: I’ll have an answer for you in a minute. Max.
30 To Verstappen: Box, pit confirm please Max, Box.
30 Verstappen: I’m in.
30 To Verstappen: Stop on the marks and switch off please.
30 Verstappen: Fu ck!ng joke, this.

I'm confused. I thought Engine Modes were banned? What is this? ^^

[komninosm]

Tinfoil hat time: It seems to me Stroll Sr. is steadily accumulating political clout in F1, and a lot of things are coming up Lance. It feels like he was supposed to win today, but he botched up his restart and divine justice smiled on Gasly today.

As happy as I am for Gasly, this race has left me with a bad aftertaste; the race stop and restart were unnecessary and clearly done to inject some excitement and unpredictability.

I found it interesting that Button said he had never seen those pit lights before, considering he was in F1 for like 17 seasons.

Why wasn't there a Virtual Safety Car with a clear message the Pitlane was closed?
There was no debris in the track, perfect case for VSC, but no, they had to eat the gaps... for excitement!

[Just_a_fan]

In the case the pitlane is closed for safety reasons, I think there should be a radio message relayed to all drivers via FIA broadcast. In fact, I think this should be a thing for most things that have to get announced. Safety car out? Pit entry closed? Pit exit closed? Debris at a corner?

A simple and effective solution that would stop a lot of these issues.

Exactly. The simplest way of ensuring everyone knows what's going on. If the pitlane is closed for safety reasons - the only reason for closing it during a safety car - then directly tell all of the drivers and teams by the radio link in one simple message - "Safety car deployed and the pit lane is closed, pit lane is closed". Then "Pit lane is now open" when the cars are allowed to use it again.

I seem to remember that there is already a radio link of this type in place, so why not use it? Typical F1, really.

[epo]

It might have been if they didn't change out the body work during the red flag.

Like this?
https://www.racefans.net/2020/09/06/ver ... etirement/

Lap 28 Verstappen Three cars pass Verstappen at the restart.
The fu ck!ng engine is hot, mate. What a joke.
28 To Verstappen: Mode six.
28 Verstappen: It’s still hot. I mean, what do you want me to do?
29 To Verstappen: Nothing for the moment.
29 Verstappen: Another car passes Mate, what can I do?
29 To Verstappen: Stand by Max, I’ll get back to you.
29 Verstappen: It’s not working. It’s fu cked.
29 To Verstappen: Engine 13 position nine please Max.
29 To Verstappen: Engine one position seven.
30 Verstappen: Fukc.
30 Verstappen: It’s still broken.
30 To Verstappen: Stand by, Max.
30 To Verstappen: I’ll have an answer for you in a minute. Max.
30 To Verstappen: Box, pit confirm please Max, Box.
30 Verstappen: I’m in.
30 To Verstappen: Stop on the marks and switch off please.
30 Verstappen: Fu ck!ng joke, this.

I'm confused. I thought Engine Modes were banned? What is this? ^^

ERS modes

And all the fuss about the pitlane, seems Hamilton is becoming an old man so he needs some extra help to see what is going on

[El Scorchio]

My take- it's so rare the pit lane is closed during a race and it's usually pretty obvious, like there's debris there or a car stuck there. This was a bit unusual and probably flagged there should be a tweak to communication. Hamilton, Merc, Gio and Alfa fell foul of the rules so the penalty is just. You can argue it's unlucky and there was no intention to commit foul play but it is what it is and the rules are the rules!

As for SC vs VSC, my feelings are the same. I believe they are doing it 'for the show' and to artificially mix races up, which is plain wrong. I know there's the argument there are less stewards this season which is convenient although I don't really buy it. I also don't understand why they needed to stop the race yesterday rather than SC which seemed enough of a measure for the Leclerc crash? I think the stoppage and restart was purely for the show as well, and yes it's exciting having a second full start, it was really unfair on a couple of drivers and teams, and destroyed a lot of hard work from some of them.

[Moore77]

My take- it's so rare the pit lane is closed during a race and it's usually pretty obvious, like there's debris there or a car stuck there. This was a bit unusual and probably flagged there should be a tweak to communication. Hamilton, Merc, Gio and Alfa fell foul of the rules so the penalty is just. You can argue it's unlucky and there was no intention to commit foul play but it is what it is and the rules are the rules!

As for SC vs VSC, my feelings are the same. I believe they are doing it 'for the show' and to artificially mix races up, which is plain wrong. I know there's the argument there are less stewards this season which is convenient although I don't really buy it. I also don't understand why they needed to stop the race yesterday rather than SC which seemed enough of a measure for the Leclerc crash? I think the stoppage and restart was purely for the show as well, and yes it's exciting having a second full start, it was really unfair on a couple of drivers and teams, and destroyed a lot of hard work from some of them.

First off, the sole objective of FIA using SC is safety. Ever since Jules' accident, the safety of drivers and of course, track marshals is of highest priority than the desires of audience watching race. No blaming Masi on that to continue being the torch bearer. Leclerc's crash, most likely damaged the the techpro barriers, that needed repairs, hence Red Flag. It's not simply a beached car. The consequence for FIA is of extreme nature if they don't ensure the safety. A race gone bad for a driver or team, is a small penalty that can be absorbed anyday.

[El Scorchio]

Yes but again WHY did some deserve good karma and some deserve bad karma? This is what is not being understood?

There is no why, there just is. Good Karma came from diligence and Bad Karma from arrogance. If anyone feels crappy about the results of the race, maybe they deserve to feel that way. Alpha Tauri ebbed and flowed with good Karma, Red Bull likely had some bad Karma. Good decision making led to Good Karma, bad decision making led to Bad Karma. Are you going to ask "BUT WHY?" again? If so, direct your question to those responsible for the Bad Karma and arrogance and decision making! Sometimes people need to eat a slice of humble pie or their own words. Like those who trash talked Honda PU being slower than the Renault "lump" in the back of the McLaren. Surely Bottas should have won the race if the Mercedes car was so dominant. People here were calling the race even before it happened. I said wait until the race is over. Abiteboul said that Red Bull missed the "trick" of not being a PU manufacturer and car builder in one. Well look what the small budget Alpha Tauri team was able to pull off. If anything, Alpha Tauri has had more time to work with Honda as a partner and the notion of "customer" team isn't here as they get equal support and treatment with Red Bull through Red Bull Technologies.

I could say "eat crow" or "what goes around comes around", would you understand that?

But if you pretend to fight for title you must be competitive in Monza too

I love how Mercedes are pretending that the party mode ban makes them stronger. I can bet my last bottom dollar that the snake Wolff would never have been using it the other way round if it was so. What is scary is how much faster Mercedes would be if they had the modes.

The arrogance can be smelt from a distance. One day this will end, and the saying 'how the mighty have fallen' will imply.

Will they have the guts to stay and fight it out or will they go home?

It's the usual rule of the human history that those in power, can afford to be arrogant. Mercedes have more good reasons to be arrogant as rule change after rule change, nothing is stopping them. By the time they fall, I am sure the legacy would something that the F1 would never forget. So more than saying, how the might have fallen, they would probably remembered as "How great that team was". They endured frustrating few years, toiling in the mid field and facing a great deal of embarrassment before taking the F1 by storm. For as long as they last in the way they are, they can afford to be arrogant and the world can simply watch on.

Well I could do, because you're making these statements with no real reasoning for it, just hints at people being 'arrogant' or 'wrong' so deserving bad karma- basically everyone except Honda, it seems. No-one in the sport is an angel by any means and they ALL have 'sinned' many times. Karma didn't hold up for Verstappen or Albon? I think it's also a bit dangerous to look at one race in isolation. Next week all four Honda powered cars could fail,and it's still almost certain Mercedes will be champions again. Would that also be karma?

The one thing I do agree with is that Gasly had some good karma coming to him after what he's been through professionally and personally, and it was lovely to see him win a race. However I really hope they don't stick him back in that Red Bull again. He's better off where he is for now, and then possibly leaving the program and joining a different team altogether. I'd imagine Renault will be very tempted by a talented young French driver.

And just to say, I 100% don't want anyone to think I am disrespecting or disagreeing with the concept of karma or Buddhism as a whole. I'm not. I'm just not sure about it being applied so literally and so definitively to the Italian Grand Prix. But once again, incredibly happy for Gasly. I hope this really launches his career. Seems like a great young man.

[El Scorchio]

My take- it's so rare the pit lane is closed during a race and it's usually pretty obvious, like there's debris there or a car stuck there. This was a bit unusual and probably flagged there should be a tweak to communication. Hamilton, Merc, Gio and Alfa fell foul of the rules so the penalty is just. You can argue it's unlucky and there was no intention to commit foul play but it is what it is and the rules are the rules!

As for SC vs VSC, my feelings are the same. I believe they are doing it 'for the show' and to artificially mix races up, which is plain wrong. I know there's the argument there are less stewards this season which is convenient although I don't really buy it. I also don't understand why they needed to stop the race yesterday rather than SC which seemed enough of a measure for the Leclerc crash? I think the stoppage and restart was purely for the show as well, and yes it's exciting having a second full start, it was really unfair on a couple of drivers and teams, and destroyed a lot of hard work from some of them.

First off, the sole objective of FIA using SC is safety. Ever since Jules' accident, the safety of drivers and of course, track marshals is of highest priority than the desires of audience watching race. No blaming Masi on that to continue being the torch bearer. Leclerc's crash, most likely damaged the the techpro barriers, that needed repairs, hence Red Flag. It's not simply a beached car. The consequence for FIA is of extreme nature if they don't ensure the safety. A race gone bad for a driver or team, is a small penalty that can be absorbed anyday.

They don't usually stop the race for that, though. They can repair a barrier that's so far off the track under safety car conditions. If it was a barrier right next to or even on the boundary of the track such as Singapore or Baku , or if it's rainy conditions like in Japan with the Bianchi accident then 100% fair enough to stop the race but it should be last resort.

You are right that safety comes first but in my POV it's been a little OTT this season in places, with somewhat convenient side effects. Like I said, Masi stated he was pleased with the spectacle of the Austrian grand prix which was due to a safety car. They might as well just get rid of VSC altogether or at least for this season because there seems to be essentially no situation where it's used any longer. I'm not sure I recall a single one so far this season.

[Jolle]

My take- it's so rare the pit lane is closed during a race and it's usually pretty obvious, like there's debris there or a car stuck there. This was a bit unusual and probably flagged there should be a tweak to communication. Hamilton, Merc, Gio and Alfa fell foul of the rules so the penalty is just. You can argue it's unlucky and there was no intention to commit foul play but it is what it is and the rules are the rules!

As for SC vs VSC, my feelings are the same. I believe they are doing it 'for the show' and to artificially mix races up, which is plain wrong. I know there's the argument there are less stewards this season which is convenient although I don't really buy it. I also don't understand why they needed to stop the race yesterday rather than SC which seemed enough of a measure for the Leclerc crash? I think the stoppage and restart was purely for the show as well, and yes it's exciting having a second full start, it was really unfair on a couple of drivers and teams, and destroyed a lot of hard work from some of them.

First off, the sole objective of FIA using SC is safety. Ever since Jules' accident, the safety of drivers and of course, track marshals is of highest priority than the desires of audience watching race. No blaming Masi on that to continue being the torch bearer. Leclerc's crash, most likely damaged the the techpro barriers, that needed repairs, hence Red Flag. It's not simply a beached car. The consequence for FIA is of extreme nature if they don't ensure the safety. A race gone bad for a driver or team, is a small penalty that can be absorbed anyday.

They don't usually stop the race for that, though. They can repair a barrier that's so far off the track under safety car conditions. If it was a barrier right next to or even on the boundary of the track such as Singapore or Baku , or if it's rainy conditions like in Japan with the Bianchi accident then 100% fair enough to stop the race but it should be last resort.

You are right that safety comes first but in my POV it's been a little OTT this season in places, with somewhat convenient side effects. Like I said, Masi stated he was pleased with the spectacle of the Austrian grand prix which was due to a safety car. They might as well just get rid of VSC altogether or at least for this season because there seems to be essentially no situation where it's used any longer. I'm not sure I recall a single one so far this season.

It's the freak accidents that get you... like, even when it's dry and sunny, someones brakes fail (Vettel). Or, in Germany 2019, so wet that they go off track just by engine braking (Hamilton), when they were driving at 40%.

[siskue2005]

My take- it's so rare the pit lane is closed during a race and it's usually pretty obvious, like there's debris there or a car stuck there. This was a bit unusual and probably flagged there should be a tweak to communication. Hamilton, Merc, Gio and Alfa fell foul of the rules so the penalty is just. You can argue it's unlucky and there was no intention to commit foul play but it is what it is and the rules are the rules!

As for SC vs VSC, my feelings are the same. I believe they are doing it 'for the show' and to artificially mix races up, which is plain wrong. I know there's the argument there are less stewards this season which is convenient although I don't really buy it. I also don't understand why they needed to stop the race yesterday rather than SC which seemed enough of a measure for the Leclerc crash? I think the stoppage and restart was purely for the show as well, and yes it's exciting having a second full start, it was really unfair on a couple of drivers and teams, and destroyed a lot of hard work from some of them.

First off, the sole objective of FIA using SC is safety. Ever since Jules' accident, the safety of drivers and of course, track marshals is of highest priority than the desires of audience watching race. No blaming Masi on that to continue being the torch bearer.

Did u watch F2 race this weekend?
Both the races had 2 Virtual safety cars in feature race and 1 virtual safety car in sprint race when they had on the same track with same marshals and same FIA delegats

Look at that, a crane on the first corner and they didnt even put a full course safety car, just virtual safety car
But we had a full course safety car and closed pit lane for a car stopping well off the racing line and near a orange barrier

Please dont say that lives of the same marshal's in an F2 race is less valuable and also the F2 driver's lives also dont matter.

This artificial changing of f1 race has been there for long long time
And it is indeed Masi's fault
Last year he let go Leclerc without any penalty, but now this year Albon got penalty for even less
What heppend to the black orange flag? is that taken out only in convenient situations?

[bucker]

My take- it's so rare the pit lane is closed during a race and it's usually pretty obvious, like there's debris there or a car stuck there. This was a bit unusual and probably flagged there should be a tweak to communication. Hamilton, Merc, Gio and Alfa fell foul of the rules so the penalty is just. You can argue it's unlucky and there was no intention to commit foul play but it is what it is and the rules are the rules!

As for SC vs VSC, my feelings are the same. I believe they are doing it 'for the show' and to artificially mix races up, which is plain wrong. I know there's the argument there are less stewards this season which is convenient although I don't really buy it. I also don't understand why they needed to stop the race yesterday rather than SC which seemed enough of a measure for the Leclerc crash? I think the stoppage and restart was purely for the show as well, and yes it's exciting having a second full start, it was really unfair on a couple of drivers and teams, and destroyed a lot of hard work from some of them.

First off, the sole objective of FIA using SC is safety. Ever since Jules' accident, the safety of drivers and of course, track marshals is of highest priority than the desires of audience watching race. No blaming Masi on that to continue being the torch bearer. Leclerc's crash, most likely damaged the the techpro barriers, that needed repairs, hence Red Flag. It's not simply a beached car. The consequence for FIA is of extreme nature if they don't ensure the safety. A race gone bad for a driver or team, is a small penalty that can be absorbed anyday.

They don't usually stop the race for that, though. They can repair a barrier that's so far off the track under safety car conditions. If it was a barrier right next to or even on the boundary of the track such as Singapore or Baku , or if it's rainy conditions like in Japan with the Bianchi accident then 100% fair enough to stop the race but it should be last resort.

You are right that safety comes first but in my POV it's been a little OTT this season in places, with somewhat convenient side effects. Like I said, Masi stated he was pleased with the spectacle of the Austrian grand prix which was due to a safety car. They might as well just get rid of VSC altogether or at least for this season because there seems to be essentially no situation where it's used any longer. I'm not sure I recall a single one so far this season.

In my opinion everything was done right. Pit lane entry in Monza is extremely fast, and can sometimes happen that drivers are overtaking each other very close to the entry. On other circuits pit lane entry is separate from race track for quite a distance. Only logical point is to call Safety Car. When Leclerc crashed it was again only logical move to red flag race. They need to repair safety barrier and nobody knows how long can it take. What, are they going to drive behind safety car for 20 min?