2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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Wass85 wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:35
NathanOlder wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:27
Wass85 wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:25


Now you're asking how when you've been agreeing with him all this time. 😂

He would have because he was in clean air no matter what so was going as fast as he possibly could.
He wouldn't catch Albon any sooner
I meant to say wouldn't have, typo.

You have overlooked a point though, pitting after one lap you're not going to get the heat in to the tyres like you would by staying out till the last minute.
The tyres take a few laps to warm up, it doesn't really make a difference when you pit during this. If anything pitting on lap 3 could mean you took 2 laps on cool tyres, then pit, they cool off again and then take 2 more laps to get them back up. The hards take a bit longer so 2 laps is believable. if you pit on lap 1, you only do 3 laps on cool tyres.
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El Scorchio
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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ispano6 wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:46
El Scorchio wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:20
ispano6 wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 17:56


I'm Buddhist, so maybe it's hard for others to understand.



Westerners have a different view of the word, as if it means to get even or something negative as in getting what they deserved. It does not have such connotation since it is Sanskrit.
We all understand the concept of karma, but can you tell us why it applies in this case?
It applies to each and everyone of us at all times. To the Honda engineers, to the AT team, Pierre, and all the fans rooting for them.
But as I said, WHY does it apply?

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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Wass85 wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:40
El Scorchio wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:27
Hamilton is a driver rather than a strategist. It’s not his job to think about all the permutations of ‘what if’ another safety car happens immediately after the restart and how it might have an impact on the rest of his race depending on what lap he serves his penalty on. He won’t have considered the situation beyond the pure racing aspect and nor should he.

James Vowles as they head of strategy IS paid to think of these things so he just got on the radio to tell Hamilton it was strategically the best thing to do. Its such a trivial thing. I really don’t see the point in harping on about it and using it as a stick to beat Hamilton with.
I'm not beating Hamilton up over it because I thought the same as him at the time, I'm just amused at the hypocrisy from certain posters who are trying their best to save his reputation whilst having a dig at me for the same mistake.
im not, he made the wrong call thats all. Or you hoping for me to hate Lewis after this!?
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El Scorchio
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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Mandrake wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:47
JordanMugen wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 17:53
Wass85 wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 17:22
Why the hell was a safety car activated instead of a virtual safety car?

If I were Merc I'd be having a few choice words with those numpties at race control.
Because we have a ex-V8 Supercar race director now, so the decisions are taken more conservatively like they are in Australian racing. Full safety car for nearly everything (debris, car on the track, whatever), to maximise safety for the marshalls. :)

If you familiarise yourself with the V8 Supercar championship, you will note this is standard practice. :)
I believe the VSC in F1 is just not suited for this. In iLMS they have a pit limiter set to what? 80kph? 120kph? That is slow enough for the drivers to not make a mistake as they are basically cruising at a given max speed.

In F1 they'd drive to a delta, sometimes quicker, sometimes faster. Some drivers (ahem....Grosjean) manage to spin out behind Safety car. I doubt anyone would risk an F1 car driving to the delta only (meaning still too fast) spinning into the recovering marshalls.

And then there is human error. Ham and Gio pitted, imagine they were surprised by the marshals moving the car and losing control crashing into them......
Have they used a single VSC this season? I absolutely think they are using full safety cars instead to try and artificially mix things up and ‘for the spectacle’. They might as well just do away with VSC completely now. There have been clear situations during this season where it would have been more sensible than the hassle of full safety.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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Big Tea wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:49
NathanOlder wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:44
Big Tea wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:31


No, he catches him on 28, 29, or 30. 25, 24 or 23 laps to get up the field. If the race finished 3 laps sooner for Lewis he may not have made the final pass or 2 as his tyres would be older and the cars he passed could drain the electric energy
I still don't agree, my reasoning is, There were 25 laps to go. For arguments sake, lets say Lewis is 2 seconds a lap faster than albon. at the restart Lewis is 10 seconds agead of Albon, but has a 30 second penalty. if he does 1 lap then stops, the gap would be 18 seconds to albon (10 seconds at start, + 2 sec for 1 lap, thn serves the 30sec pen) then it takes Lewis 9 laps to close the 18 second gap at 2 sec a lap. Lewis was in clean air up until 4 seconds (example) behind Albon so was in dirty air 8 laps after the restart.

if lewis stops on lap 3 he adds 2 seconds a lap to his lead over Albon, then pits. he had a 16 lead over albon, so comes out 14 seconds behind Albon, he stays in clean air until he gets to 4 seconds behind albon, it takes him 5 laps to get to the dirty air at 2 seconds a lap. So those 5 laps, + the 3 before he stopped means he got to albons dirty air 8 laps after the restart.

Both scenarios are exactly the same.
Yeh, if you see the post above yours, I am beginning to think I have gone wrong.

To me, catching the pack more closely bunched is always going to be an advantage as the drivers have more than you to watch.

No doubt a safety car would change things but. there wasn't one.

I think time to retire
Yeah I saw it, I missed it as I was typing my message trying to explain. So much easier to explain in a voice conversation than messages lol 🍻
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RZS10
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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In addition to the consideration of another quick SC maybe it was also about tyre behaviour? Doing just one quick lap then cooling them down during the stop&go might have been better for tyre performance than putting in 3 laps, getting them really hot and then cooling them more (relative to the other variant) during the stop&go? Right after the restart the hards probably weren't quite in the 'window' yet but would have been after a few laps ... maybe more/bigger cooling/reheating cycles are worse

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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Wass85 wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:58
NathanOlder wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:54
Wass85 wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:40


I'm not beating Hamilton up over it because I thought the same as him at the time, I'm just amused at the hypocrisy from certain posters who are trying their best to save his reputation whilst having a dig at me for the same mistake.
im not, he made the wrong call thats all. Or you hoping for me to hate Lewis after this!?
No I'm just hoping you admit you were being hypocritical by having a sly dig at me when Hamilton was thinking exactly the same.
nope not at all, I would have said the same to Lewis, but unfortunately I cant get hold of him right now. You both made the mistake
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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RZS10 wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:59
In addition to the consideration of another quick SC maybe it was also about tyre behaviour? Doing just one quick lap then cooling them down during the stop&go might have been better for tyre performance than putting in 3 laps, getting them really hot and then cooling them more (relative to the other variant) during the stop&go? Right after the restart the hards probably weren't quite in the 'window' yet but would have been after a few laps ... maybe more/bigger cooling/reheating cycles are worse
Yeah I agree, I mentioned it earlier. a 30 second pit stop would have cooled them off a lot.
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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NathanOlder wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 19:01
Wass85 wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:58
NathanOlder wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:54


im not, he made the wrong call thats all. Or you hoping for me to hate Lewis after this!?
No I'm just hoping you admit you were being hypocritical by having a sly dig at me when Hamilton was thinking exactly the same.
nope not at all, I would have said the same to Lewis, but unfortunately I cant get hold of him right now. You both made the mistake
Well at least we're getting somewhere I suppose.

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nevill3
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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El Scorchio wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:57


Have they used a single VSC this season? I absolutely think they are using full safety cars instead to try and artificially mix things up and ‘for the spectacle’. They might as well just do away with VSC completely now. There have been clear situations during this season where it would have been more sensible than the hassle of full safety.
There are more full safety cars this year due to reduced marshal numbers because of Covid.
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Shrieker
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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El Scorchio wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:40


As much as I think you’re very much over exaggerating with your judgement of Bottas, this is quite a fun game. I’ll say Frentzen in the Williams in 1997.
Frentzen did extremely well with the Jordan team (which was far from the best car), right after leaving Williams. Which leads me to think instead of getting good support from the team at Williams, he was told to shut up and drive. Patrick was a bit notorious for not treating the drivers in the best way.
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ispano6
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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El Scorchio wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:53
ispano6 wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:46
El Scorchio wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:20


We all understand the concept of karma, but can you tell us why it applies in this case?
It applies to each and everyone of us at all times. To the Honda engineers, to the AT team, Pierre, and all the fans rooting for them.
But as I said, WHY does it apply?
Because for some it was good and for some it was bad. That's life - the events that make a person's experience and put's them in their place, to be introspective about what they do and say. However you feel about it, that is how you are dealing with it. I think Gasly had that sitting at the podium afterwards. His eyes were glowing. That was his Karma flowing and enveloping him. I had my own experience as well, I was shaking with near Nirvana.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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ispano6 wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 19:08
El Scorchio wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:53
ispano6 wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:46


It applies to each and everyone of us at all times. To the Honda engineers, to the AT team, Pierre, and all the fans rooting for them.
But as I said, WHY does it apply?
Because for some it was good and for some it was bad. That's life - the events that make a person's experience and put's them in their place, to be introspective about what they do and say. However you feel about it, that is how you are dealing with it. I think Gasly had that sitting at the podium afterwards. His eyes were glowing. That was his Karma flowing and enveloping him. I had my own experience as well, I was shaking with near Nirvana.
Yes but again WHY did some deserve good karma and some deserve bad karma? This is what is not being understood?

Wass85
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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In this day and age why isn't it possible for the drivers to get a warning on their steering wheel to notify them of the situation?

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214270
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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NathanOlder wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 19:02
RZS10 wrote:
06 Sep 2020, 18:59
In addition to the consideration of another quick SC maybe it was also about tyre behaviour? Doing just one quick lap then cooling them down during the stop&go might have been better for tyre performance than putting in 3 laps, getting them really hot and then cooling them more (relative to the other variant) during the stop&go? Right after the restart the hards probably weren't quite in the 'window' yet but would have been after a few laps ... maybe more/bigger cooling/reheating cycles are worse
Yeah I agree, I mentioned it earlier. a 30 second pit stop would have cooled them off a lot.
I think it has more to do with the serving of the penalty. Consider another safety car and he’s still ahead lapping vs. a safety car after serving the penalty. He’d be back at square 1 if the former were to happen.
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