Red Bull RB18

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
tmoneyr007
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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Henk_v
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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They are running with far less cooling louvres compared to miami. In the early races they would close off the rear louvresto reduce cooling, now they seem to be running with only the rear louvres. Maybe the cooling got better too?

RB has had one big floor update and the last updates seem to be incremental modifications on the same floor. (Even the update was kind of a modificaties of the same floor). Seems they are really happy with the concept performance

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Chuckjr
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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Thank you for the great pics.

On the lower pic, or the pic of the rear of the wing, is the air detached on the left side more than the right, or is that a shadow or something else?

It looks to me like the flow viz is not balanced on each side and there is less of it marking the wing on the lower left side like it does on the right, and I don’t understand why or if it matters. Just curious what’s going on.
Watching F1 since 1986.
Saw Senna race in his prime. It was spectacular.

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jagunx51
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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Image
............!!!!

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AeroDynamic
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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Image

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gandharva
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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The tip of the vortex now sits higher and more inboard. Due to the curvature it also is stronger. You can also see very nicely the area of the floor that was modified.

Image

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:13 am
Anyway something elese I discover about this car.

I think the thick lips to the entry of the floor may be for stiffness. Red-bull wanted to eliminate as much oscillation as possible.
Now we know how important the stiffness of the floor is!

I caught this is April. How much thicker and stiffer the RedBull floor appeared.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌

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Stu
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 12:35 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:13 am
Anyway something elese I discover about this car.

I think the thick lips to the entry of the floor may be for stiffness. Red-bull wanted to eliminate as much oscillation as possible.
Now we know how important the stiffness of the floor is!

I caught this is April. How much thicker and stiffer the RedBull floor appeared.
As a whole the RedBull floor is a better structural shape, the recently viewed stiffening brackets help it all the more.

Considering the technology that is readily available (commercially) for FEA and carbon fibre layup analysis how have others mis-calculated so badly?
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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Stu wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 9:03 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 12:35 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:13 am
Anyway something elese I discover about this car.

I think the thick lips to the entry of the floor may be for stiffness. Red-bull wanted to eliminate as much oscillation as possible.
Now we know how important the stiffness of the floor is!

I caught this is April. How much thicker and stiffer the RedBull floor appeared.
As a whole the RedBull floor is a better structural shape, the recently viewed stiffening brackets help it all the more.

Considering the technology that is readily available (commercially) for FEA and carbon fibre layup analysis how have others mis-calculated so badly?
FEA replaces the real system with idealized joints and uniform material moduli. The real world is a bit messier than that.

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chrisc90
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Does anyone know why it’s always Max that has the DRS issues? Both at the end of last season and continuing into this season?

I wonder if there is weight saving going on (as Christian briefly mentioned in an interview after the race) which is affecting performance however, you would expect that to have a lasting effect rather than intermittently work.

So maybe the problem is hydraulic where by the system can’t maintain the pressure required to keep the flap open. Which could explain why it was working on the shorter stints where the system had more chance to build pressure due to the longer distances. I wonder if max ‘skipped’ using DRS on the shorter straight, but used it on the start/finish it would have helped.
I don’t know how the DRS hydraulics system works so I could be completely wrong.

Another theory is the flap is opening too much and drops back down too far which causes the system to fail in the way it does. Almost like a road cars ECU boost PID can be programmed to allow a small ‘overshoot’ or be programmed to bring things in slower the closer it gets to its expected point. I’m sure I’ve seen somewhere DRS flap angle mentioned which could explain a PID theory.

However, it’s more worrying that the issue has never surfaced on Checo’s car (or at least I’ve seen) which is strange as you would expect any weight saving or other performance measures to be echo’d across both cars.

The work they were doing in the garage to the flap wing, sanding, glueing etc would seem to suggest it not being a hydraulic or system issue which adds even more confusion to the mix.

Would love to see them get on top of this issue that is again showing itself even if it means adding a fraction more weight back onto the car. With the slippery straight line speed of the bulls, the DRS helps that little bit more with top end speed.
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

marcel171281
marcel171281
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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chrisc90 wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 10:16 am
Does anyone know why it’s always Max that has the DRS issues? Both at the end of last season and continuing into this season?

I wonder if there is weight saving going on (as Christian briefly mentioned in an interview after the race) which is affecting performance however, you would expect that to have a lasting effect rather than intermittently work.

So maybe the problem is hydraulic where by the system can’t maintain the pressure required to keep the flap open. Which could explain why it was working on the shorter stints where the system had more chance to build pressure due to the longer distances. I wonder if max ‘skipped’ using DRS on the shorter straight, but used it on the start/finish it would have helped.
I don’t know how the DRS hydraulics system works so I could be completely wrong.

Another theory is the flap is opening too much and drops back down too far which causes the system to fail in the way it does. Almost like a road cars ECU boost PID can be programmed to allow a small ‘overshoot’ or be programmed to bring things in slower the closer it gets to its expected point. I’m sure I’ve seen somewhere DRS flap angle mentioned which could explain a PID theory.

However, it’s more worrying that the issue has never surfaced on Checo’s car (or at least I’ve seen) which is strange as you would expect any weight saving or other performance measures to be echo’d across both cars.

The work they were doing in the garage to the flap wing, sanding, glueing etc would seem to suggest it not being a hydraulic or system issue which adds even more confusion to the mix.

Would love to see them get on top of this issue that is again showing itself even if it means adding a fraction more weight back onto the car. With the slippery straight line speed of the bulls, the DRS helps that little bit more with top end speed.
Yesterdays DRS problem was very different from the problem last year. Last year the opening was never the problem, it was the oscilation of the DRS flap when open, causing cracks at the mounting point of the flap. Also Perez had the same problems last year.

Max's engineer told him to open the DRS after the curb on the main straight. It didn't help all the time, but looked like it opened more often that way. So maybe the vibrations had something to do with it as well.

Also I wonder if the speed when opening the DRS on the main straight is higher than after turn 9. In that case there would be more downforce on the wing, making it harder to open. That could suggest less hydraulic pressure, needed to open it against the downforce at the time.

aran.vtec
aran.vtec
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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marcel171281 wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 10:32 am
chrisc90 wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 10:16 am
Does anyone know why it’s always Max that has the DRS issues? Both at the end of last season and continuing into this season?

I wonder if there is weight saving going on (as Christian briefly mentioned in an interview after the race) which is affecting performance however, you would expect that to have a lasting effect rather than intermittently work.

So maybe the problem is hydraulic where by the system can’t maintain the pressure required to keep the flap open. Which could explain why it was working on the shorter stints where the system had more chance to build pressure due to the longer distances. I wonder if max ‘skipped’ using DRS on the shorter straight, but used it on the start/finish it would have helped.
I don’t know how the DRS hydraulics system works so I could be completely wrong.

Another theory is the flap is opening too much and drops back down too far which causes the system to fail in the way it does. Almost like a road cars ECU boost PID can be programmed to allow a small ‘overshoot’ or be programmed to bring things in slower the closer it gets to its expected point. I’m sure I’ve seen somewhere DRS flap angle mentioned which could explain a PID theory.

However, it’s more worrying that the issue has never surfaced on Checo’s car (or at least I’ve seen) which is strange as you would expect any weight saving or other performance measures to be echo’d across both cars.

The work they were doing in the garage to the flap wing, sanding, glueing etc would seem to suggest it not being a hydraulic or system issue which adds even more confusion to the mix.

Would love to see them get on top of this issue that is again showing itself even if it means adding a fraction more weight back onto the car. With the slippery straight line speed of the bulls, the DRS helps that little bit more with top end speed.
Yesterdays DRS problem was very different from the problem last year. Last year the opening was never the problem, it was the oscilation of the DRS flap when open, causing cracks at the mounting point of the flap. Also Perez had the same problems last year.

Max's engineer told him to open the DRS after the curb on the main straight. It didn't help all the time, but looked like it opened more often that way. So maybe the vibrations had something to do with it as well.

Also I wonder if the speed when opening the DRS on the main straight is higher than after turn 9. In that case there would be more downforce on the wing, making it harder to open. That could suggest less hydraulic pressure, needed to open it against the downforce at the time.
I also noticed the drs after turn 9 opened without fail every time just on the start finish line where it had issues, Was this the highest df rear wing they have used before? its like it didn't have enough power to keep it open

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organic
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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aran.vtec wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 10:51 am
marcel171281 wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 10:32 am
chrisc90 wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 10:16 am
Does anyone know why it’s always Max that has the DRS issues? Both at the end of last season and continuing into this season?

I wonder if there is weight saving going on (as Christian briefly mentioned in an interview after the race) which is affecting performance however, you would expect that to have a lasting effect rather than intermittently work.

So maybe the problem is hydraulic where by the system can’t maintain the pressure required to keep the flap open. Which could explain why it was working on the shorter stints where the system had more chance to build pressure due to the longer distances. I wonder if max ‘skipped’ using DRS on the shorter straight, but used it on the start/finish it would have helped.
I don’t know how the DRS hydraulics system works so I could be completely wrong.

Another theory is the flap is opening too much and drops back down too far which causes the system to fail in the way it does. Almost like a road cars ECU boost PID can be programmed to allow a small ‘overshoot’ or be programmed to bring things in slower the closer it gets to its expected point. I’m sure I’ve seen somewhere DRS flap angle mentioned which could explain a PID theory.

However, it’s more worrying that the issue has never surfaced on Checo’s car (or at least I’ve seen) which is strange as you would expect any weight saving or other performance measures to be echo’d across both cars.

The work they were doing in the garage to the flap wing, sanding, glueing etc would seem to suggest it not being a hydraulic or system issue which adds even more confusion to the mix.

Would love to see them get on top of this issue that is again showing itself even if it means adding a fraction more weight back onto the car. With the slippery straight line speed of the bulls, the DRS helps that little bit more with top end speed.
Yesterdays DRS problem was very different from the problem last year. Last year the opening was never the problem, it was the oscilation of the DRS flap when open, causing cracks at the mounting point of the flap. Also Perez had the same problems last year.

Max's engineer told him to open the DRS after the curb on the main straight. It didn't help all the time, but looked like it opened more often that way. So maybe the vibrations had something to do with it as well.

Also I wonder if the speed when opening the DRS on the main straight is higher than after turn 9. In that case there would be more downforce on the wing, making it harder to open. That could suggest less hydraulic pressure, needed to open it against the downforce at the time.
I also noticed the drs after turn 9 opened without fail every time just on the start finish line where it had issues, Was this the highest df rear wing they have used before? its like it didn't have enough power to keep it open
There was a headwind on the pit straight which probably didn't help things

TNTHead
TNTHead
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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organic wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 12:42 pm
aran.vtec wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 10:51 am
marcel171281 wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 10:32 am


Yesterdays DRS problem was very different from the problem last year. Last year the opening was never the problem, it was the oscilation of the DRS flap when open, causing cracks at the mounting point of the flap. Also Perez had the same problems last year.

Max's engineer told him to open the DRS after the curb on the main straight. It didn't help all the time, but looked like it opened more often that way. So maybe the vibrations had something to do with it as well.

Also I wonder if the speed when opening the DRS on the main straight is higher than after turn 9. In that case there would be more downforce on the wing, making it harder to open. That could suggest less hydraulic pressure, needed to open it against the downforce at the time.
I also noticed the drs after turn 9 opened without fail every time just on the start finish line where it had issues, Was this the highest df rear wing they have used before? its like it didn't have enough power to keep it open
There was a headwind on the pit straight which probably didn't help things
Is the actuator hydraulic? I would think it's pneumatic because of the short opening timings.

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gandharva
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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chrisc90 wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 10:16 am
Does anyone know why it’s always Max that has the DRS issues? Both at the end of last season and continuing into this season?
It was a new part that only Max had on his car, because they did not have time to produce 2 pcs until Barcelona. That new part was not tested enough and therefore failed. We will knewer know the real reason of failure. But in the end, that's what happens when you push everything to the limits. For Monaco they will revert back to the old DRS activator spec (that's probably ~200 grams heavier).

/edit
Marko even talked about removing the whole weight saving package completely for Monaco to improve reliability.