EU slams Ferrari over Marlboro partnership

[andartop]

As a wise man told me today, quitting all bad habits does not necessarily make you live longer, but it certainly does make it feel much longer.

[Giblet]

Yes, it's legal, but moral?

Just (naively) looking for a little even-handedness here. But again, thank you for all the free publicity.

Here is the difference I have already cited. Alcohol is what it is. Distillers and breweries do the best to convince you to buy their better tasting alcoholic beverages through regular media trickery, product quality, and advertising. Just like detergent, cheese, and shoes.

Cigarette companies cheat. They add benzene to the tobacco to make the product 12x more addictive. I think if the drink makers could do the same they would, but conjecture is a fools game.

This is why tobacco by PJM and other big tobacco is immoral, and alcohol is not.

American Spirit tobacco has no additives, and is more expensive than regular processed tobacco. Figure that out.

If I start making nicotine added dog food, to make Rover and Spot crave and only want that food, would that be immoral?

[flynfrog]

Yes, it's legal, but moral?

Just (naively) looking for a little even-handedness here. But again, thank you for all the free publicity.

Here is the difference I have already cited. Alcohol is what it is. Distillers and breweries do the best to convince you to buy their better tasting alcoholic beverages through regular media trickery, product quality, and advertising. Just like detergent, cheese, and shoes.

Cigarette companies cheat. They add benzene to the tobacco to make the product 12x more addictive. I think if the drink makers could do the same they would, but conjecture is a fools game.

This is why tobacco by PJM and other big tobacco is immoral, and alcohol is not.

American Spirit tobacco has no additives, and is more expensive than regular processed tobacco. Figure that out.

If I start making nicotine added dog food, to make Rover and Spot crave and only want that food, would that be immoral?

I did a quick google search I can find parts on benzene being a carcinogen but not addictive. And I don't know where you live but AM spirits are cheaper here. How is it any different from red bull adding addictive caffeine to there product. Or what about beer companies making caffeinated beer? Or cereal companies adding sugar to cereal?

[autogyro]

Sponsorship and advertising by tobacco companies in F1 is illegal.
How many more times.
It is not possible for a tobacco company to have any kind of business conection with an F1 team, without it being sponsorship. Its so simple it hurts.

[feynman]

This is F1, there is no such thing as the spirit of the rules, or the law.

As per standard-operating procedure, you design, or paint, the car to pass the test, not meet the intention. That is normal. If you don't like it, you need to find another sport, cos we aint changing F1-mentality just cos you suddenly got a bit squeamish.

Doesn't matter what is or isn't legal, it's what you can get away with, pushing everything 10/10ths. Keep tap-dancing Ferrari and Marlboro, keep laughing, make the regulators and the busy-body puritans look as slow-footed and dull-witted as they genuinely are.

[vall]

Sponsorship and advertising by tobacco companies in F1 is illegal.
How many more times.
It is not possible for a tobacco company to have any kind of business conection with an F1 team, without it being sponsorship. Its so simple it hurts.

.... and I will repeat again for sake of clarity:

From the EU law:

(b) "advertising" means any form of commercial communications with the aim or direct or indirect effect of promoting a tobacco product;

(c) "sponsorship" means any form of public or private contribution to any event, activity or individual with the aim or direct or indirect effect of promoting a tobacco product;

I interprete this that not all sponsorship is illegal, only if it has the aim or direct or indirect effect of promoting a tobacco product.

[Giblet]

I did a quick google search I can find parts on benzene being a carcinogen but not addictive. And I don't know where you live but AM spirits are cheaper here. How is it any different from red bull adding addictive caffeine to there product. Or what about beer companies making caffeinated beer? Or cereal companies adding sugar to cereal?

You told me you were done with this discussion, yet here you are pondering the exact same questions as before. I respect your opinions for the most part Flyinfrog, but comparing sugar and caffeine to benzene laced tobacco is bordering on ludicrous, and you must know this.

Here is but one piece of text on benzene being addictive. Google.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15327265

Red Bull adds caffeine to wake you up, and caffeine is not on the same level as nicotine. It is far from it. Nicotine is one of the most physically addictive substances that you can purchase. Caffeine is mildly physically addictive, and withdrawal symptoms are agitative at best.

Sugar is not bad for you. It is in large quantities like everything else, including water. Caffeinated beer is called "caffeinated beer'. Cigs are not called benzene sticks, obviously.

The point is, tobacco companies lie to you, they have for years, and have been caught, fined, and made to look the fool. They add dangerous chemicals to tobacco. They have found a sweet spot in the human psyche that lets people do serious damage to their bodies and families while a pair of blinders make them refuse to see the idiocy that is their physically addictive habit.

Red Bull is a soda pop with caffeine and taurine, which is written in plain text right on every single can. The sugar in cereal is in the ingredients. Plain as the nose on Kubica's face.

The 'ingredients' in tobacco can not fit on a pack of cigarettes. 599 additives when burned turn into over 4000 compounds.

If you can not differentiate this I fear the blinders are on you as well.

[Scorpaguy]

...somebody please save me from all the nefarious evildoers running rampant on our streets forcing us to smoke cigarettes!

[feynman]

The point giblet, the point you seem to fail to grasp, and I will illuminate it for you, cos I like informing people of things that they were unaware of, the point is, it is absolutely nothing much to do with you.

Please ... There are unborn foetuses in as yet undiscovered African tribes that know that smoking cigarettes is addictive and unhealthy. No-one out there thinks they are carrot sticks, or benzene addled carrot sticks.

If someone wants to smoke tobacco, if someone want to sell tobacco, if someone wants to paint their car to look like tobacco, what has it got to do with you ... or anyone else here ... or to do with some overpaid doctor that should be busy fixing people, like we paid to train him to do, not sticking their oar into public-policy and looking to stir-up the already prohibitionist tendencies and fetishes of a self-serving political class.

I will never understand the capacity some people have for sticking their noses into other people's business, which is all this is really about. For assuming, unjustified, that they are qualified to make decisions for others, all for their own good of course, for their own health and safety, for "they" are clearly incapable of making such choices themselves. The hand-wringing puritan zeal of "Something must be done". The acme of victim-culture. A population of serfs to be managed, their dangerous choices proscribed.

People die smoking, people die driving cars, people die falling down the stairs. What's that got to do with anything? That's correct, nothing.

The real discussion has nothing to do with the banal attempts at internet gainsaying, it is easy. It is a straightforward question of individual human liberty, the freedom to live your own life, no matter how short or bronchial. Rights and responsibilities, decisions and outcomes, acts of free-will versus being told what to do, and when to be tucked-up in bed by. Personal responsibility, that's the story here.

It's an exercise of said free-will to do something stupid like smoke, an exercise of free-trade to run a legitimate private business and offer products in a free-market, it is an exercise of free-speech to communicate availability of said products to potential consumers, it is an exercise of free-choice as to whether you decide to partake in any part of this transaction at any level.

There is nothing wrong with any of that; and those that would seek to control, to restrict and inhibit the liberties of others tend not to be satisified at banning the odd packet of fags - picking off the easy targets is always their modus operandi, whose next? What is the next free-choice to be put on the salami-slicer. Anyone indulging or pandering to this well-worn illiberal pathology should rightly be viewed with both suspicion and hostility.

Let's hope Luca keeps his bottle, keeps dancing with logos and patterns, and keeps sticking two-fingers up to the EU Bottom Inspectors. If not, if they knock him over, maybe they come after whatever vice you are keeping quiet about.

[autogyro]

What a complete and utter diatribe of imoral ignorance.
It could only come from someone with a vested interest in killing our childrem.
Probably a blinkered goon with shares in either tobacco or nuclear power.
If it was acceptable to allow poison peddlars to sell to our societies without any control, then there would be no reason for any form of government or any laws.
There is a word for such a society and it is only ever promoted by criminals.

[xpensive]

What a complete and utter diatribe of imoral ignorance.
It could only come from someone with a vested interest in killing our childrem.
Probably a blinkered goon with shares in either tobacco or nuclear power.
If it was acceptable to allow poison peddlars to sell to our societies without any control, then there would be no reason for any form of government or any laws.
There is a word for such a society and it is only ever promoted by criminals.

Agreed Auto, libertarian nonsense if you ask me, with that kind of philosophy, we might as well legalize heroin while we're at it?

[manchild]

we might as well legalize heroin while we're at it?

Idiots on power in Czech Republic already did it!

5 plants of hemp or 15.0 grams of marijuana, 40 pieces of magic mushrooms, 5.0 grams of hashish, 5 LCD laced papers or other materials with LSD, 1.5 grams of heroin, 1.0 grams of cocaine, and 2.0 grams of methamphetamine.

http://www.prague-guide.co.uk/news/2010 ... ublic.html

That is by far the worst legislative step-back since Nazis came on power in Germany. Human rights should be respected as far as they don't consider violation of human rights of other people. We all know what kind of danger drugged person is to his surrounding, traffic etc.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=czech+re ... 6effae88c7

[carvetia]

I can no longer tell if this thread is a catastrophic failure of objective thinking, open-mindedness and tolerance, or if people are just being sarcastic.

[xpensive]

Please help us identiying namecalling valued moderator(s)?

If you ask me, idiot, moron, a**hole, sob, f**k face or c**k sucker is.

Criminal, peddler, corruptor, ignorant, polluter or libertarian is not.

[Giblet]

The point giblet, the point you seem to fail to grasp, and I will illuminate it for you, cos I like informing people of things that they were unaware of, the point is, it is absolutely nothing much to do with you.

Actually feynman, your insane, sarcastic, and randomly out of context rant aside, I responded to FlyinFrog's post quite well, and my point sailed clear over your head, despite your best efforts apparently about unborn African "foetuses". Your likening to my inability to grasp the most simple concepts is entertaining at the least.

He asked me how RedBull is and Sugary Cereal are different from Tobacco, and I simply answered.

Tobacco doesn't list it's ingredients, Red Bull and Captain Crunch do. They do not pretend to be something they are not.

You are free to do whatever you want, and put whatever you want into your body, that is fine. Just don't do it near me, because I can exercise my right to stop you from blowing smoke in my face here in Canada. I support you smoking cigarettes but when you get ill and need Chemo and surgery to cling to a little more low quality life, I don't want my tax dollars going to help you, even thought they will.

If someone wants to smoke tobacco, if someone want to sell tobacco, if someone wants to paint their car to look like tobacco, what has it got to do with you ... or anyone else here ... or to do with some overpaid doctor that should be busy fixing people, like we paid to train him to do, not sticking their oar into public-policy and looking to stir-up the already prohibitionist tendencies and fetishes of a self-serving political class.

Simple, my money fixes smokers, my children and my lungs are exposed to it, and I can't be around them 24/7. Your liberties do not include encroaching on mine.