Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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ENGINE TUNER
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by ENGINE TUNER » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:37 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgLzNttPco0

So, the variable engine cooling ducts just below the rear mounts of the halo, the covers that they place on there for qually, they are removed during the pit stops, but is it within the regulations to rig up a system where the driver himself can remove them during the first stint.

Hamilton specifically suffered with the same engine overheating in traffic issues in Canada 2018, and both cars in Canada 2019.

izzy
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by izzy » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:36 pm

So this is the inside of the wheel, that they were developing towards the end of last year:
Image
The first thing is that the notorious SPACER isn't anything to do with the aero it has lots of little holes that get air from the hub face and vent straight away into the general space inside the wheel. It really is just an insulator

The second thing is that there's a small hole going through from the space around the axle, that goes into the new extra hole in each spoke. And we can see that this space is sealed at the far end with that flange that has lots of little holes in it. This must get high pressure air from the brake duct, and its job is to be a jet that entrains air to flow through the spokes

Then there's the Texture on the inside of the rim, which as i pointed out in the tyre temperature thread only has a smooth surface on the other side not a textured or even roughened one. So its job can't be heat transfer, it can only be to stir the air around the outside of the cake tin into rotating.

So this is a recipe for a VORTEX, and even for an outwashing vortex =D> . I'll do a post from the outside of the wheel in a bit
Last edited by izzy on Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by zibby43 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:50 pm

The Stroll Spec 2 PU ICE failure was due to a faulty spark plug.

Mercedes has rectified the issue for France.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... l/4476897/

dans79
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by dans79 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:00 pm

izzy wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:36 pm
Then there's the Texture on the inside of the rim, which as i pointed out in the tyre temperature thread only has a smooth surface on the other side not a textured or even roughened one. So its job can't be heat transfer, it can only be to stir the air around the outside of the cake tin into rotating.
The dimples increase surface area, and aid in heat transfer. They have been around since 2013, as can be seen here.
https://www.f1technical.net/development ... -the-tyres

izzy
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by izzy » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:57 pm

dans79 wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:00 pm
The dimples increase surface area, and aid in heat transfer.
they would do, if there were dimples on the other side. But the other side is smooth, so as it is, the heat can't get out as fast as it can get in, so the dimples can't be about heat transfer. If they wanted to TRANSFER heat, across the membrane, they'd have both sides textured

Texturing only one side means it's not about heat. And same thing with the fins. It'd be so easy to texture the inside, and they haven't

Here they are again, smooth as a baby's bottom :)
Image

dans79
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by dans79 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:16 pm

izzy wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:57 pm
dans79 wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:00 pm
The dimples increase surface area, and aid in heat transfer.
they would do, if there were dimples on the other side. But the other side is smooth, so as it is, the heat can't get out as fast as it can get in, so the dimples can't be about heat transfer. If they wanted to TRANSFER heat, across the membrane, they'd have both sides textured

Texturing only one side means it's not about heat. And same thing with the fins. It'd be so easy to texture the inside, and they haven't
My assumptions has always been that they wanted it this way on purpose.

Transfer a bunch of heat into the rims in braking zones and earlier on in the acceleration zones, when the brakes are at their hottest. Then slowly let it leach out into the tires on the straits to counteract the cooling of the tires.

mantikos
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by mantikos » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:20 pm

izzy wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:57 pm
dans79 wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:00 pm
The dimples increase surface area, and aid in heat transfer.
they would do, if there were dimples on the other side. But the other side is smooth, so as it is, the heat can't get out as fast as it can get in, so the dimples can't be about heat transfer. If they wanted to TRANSFER heat, across the membrane, they'd have both sides textured

Texturing only one side means it's not about heat. And same thing with the fins. It'd be so easy to texture the inside, and they haven't

Here they are again, smooth as a baby's bottom :)
https://d2d0b2rxqzh1q5.cloudfront.net/s ... 918406.jpg
That is decidedly inaccurate and a terrible assumption. Does your heatsink have fins on both sides or only on one?

hollus
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by hollus » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:23 pm

Then a heatsink draws heat from a flat surface, and this would take heat from hot air.
It is not white, it is not black, it is probably gray.

dans79
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by dans79 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:26 pm

mantikos wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:20 pm
That is decidedly inaccurate and a terrible assumption. Does your heatsink have fins on both sides or only on one?
This isn't a great analogy either, as it depends on what the heat is being transferred from/to.
[*] solid to air
[*] solid to liquid
[*] air to air
[*] air to liquid
[*] etc


in the case of tires you are talking air to air.

izzy
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by izzy » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:33 pm

mantikos wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:20 pm
That is decidedly inaccurate and a terrible assumption. Does your heatsink have fins on both sides or only on one?
a heatsink generally isn't air to air, as Hollus says. When the medium is the same, the surface has to be the same, if all you want to do is transfer from one side to the other

LM10
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by LM10 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:39 pm

Didn’t Mercedes start with those rims to solve their overheating issues? If so, shouldn’t this explain the purpose of them?

izzy
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by izzy » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:54 pm

LM10 wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:39 pm
Didn’t Mercedes start with those rims to solve their overheating issues? If so, shouldn’t this explain the purpose of them?
but when you look at the detail of it, that doesn't really fit does it. The texture around the cake tin would warm the wheel up, while the fins would cool it down. If they wanted the fins for cooling, they'd have textured the inside of them

Of course Mercedes must have been loving it while everyone was talking about the cooling, even tho probably the other teams knew and i read Ferrari were working on it. And the context was, being desperate for outwash

mantikos
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by mantikos » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:58 pm

dans79 wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:26 pm
mantikos wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:20 pm
That is decidedly inaccurate and a terrible assumption. Does your heatsink have fins on both sides or only on one?
This isn't a great analogy either, as it depends on what the heat is being transferred from/to.
[*] solid to air
[*] solid to liquid
[*] air to air
[*] air to liquid
[*] etc

in the case of tires you are talking air to air.
I agree its not the best analogy BUT, I also don't think that the small protrusions on the rim rise above the boundary layer to generate a meaningful vortex. The answer to everything can not be a vortex.

dans79
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by dans79 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:10 pm

mantikos wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:58 pm
I agree its not the best analogy BUT, I also don't think that the small protrusions on the rim rise above the boundary layer to generate a meaningful vortex. The answer to everything can not be a vortex.
I didn't suggest anything about vortexes, I'm suggesting that are there purely to aid in heat transfer into the rim.

izzy
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by izzy » Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:44 pm

mantikos wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:58 pm
I agree its not the best analogy BUT, I also don't think that the small protrusions on the rim rise above the boundary layer to generate a meaningful vortex. The answer to everything can not be a vortex.
it's F1, if it's not heat and it's not a vortex what do you think it is? do you have a third subject you can switch to? :P

The rears were prone to OVERheating, why would they try to add heat with a texture? And why do you think those extra holes appeared in the spokes, front and rear? that have a mysterious little hole leading into them from the axle. are you going to acknowledge they exist?

cos vortices have some great qualities, and one of them is they attract each other. so if you flow a big fat vortex past a wake what's gonna happen? If you flow a small, fast jet of air through an orifice what happens? when the orifice is rotating :idea: