2018 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 26-28 October

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siskue2005
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Re: 2018 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 26-28 October

Post by siskue2005 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:47 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:05 pm
The "great races" occur when you have drivers of similar ability in simple cars of similar ability. That's why the junior formulae - which never have refuelling - are generally exciting. The cars are similar because they are spec series and the racing is good because they can follow. Back when we had refuelling in F1, the cars were simpler, aero allowed following, and the great races were between drivers of similar ability in similar cars. Refuelling didn't make it good, the other stuff did.
So the juniour formulae are better coz they dont have refuelling or because they are spec series ? make up your mind 8)
Refuelling will not make F1 "better" - thinking it will is an example of your correlation / causation point, actually. Refuelling will make pit stops more dangerous and longer. Longer pitstops will generally mean teams choose to minimise number of stops. Indeed, teams will choose to minimize stops anyway as they are a high risk few seconds where races can be lost by errors/failures. That's why they tend to go with one stop races unless forced by the tyres/incidents to do otherwise.
And still there were more most pitstops per race during the refuelling era, than what we have now..are you forgetting something obvious which influences the pitstops? Tyres :idea:
You want to make racing "better"? Make the aero simpler and the cars simpler. Allow the cars to follow and you'll have great racing. Sure, the cars will be slower and lap records won't be broken but the racing will be closer.
i agree to an extend, but didnt we try that out in F1 from 2009 and 2014? and what is the result?
we need simpler aero and also greater strategical variance, which the pirelli tyres have failed to produce...Pirelli are not going to change their philosophy, their tyres will always last a century if you drive slowly (and also they are gonna stay here till 2023...) hence the presence of refuelling (i dont want 90s style refuelling...but just one fuel stop ) will give an alternative strategies and make the teams push their tyres and produce lighter and more nimbler car to overtake.

You don't need to add the artificial excitement, but very real danger, of refuelling to make F1 better. To think so is to be guilty of your own view of others as stated by you above.
i dont think there has been any fatality due to refuelling in those 15 years

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2018 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 26-28 October

Post by Just_a_fan » Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:07 am

siskue2005 wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:47 am
So the juniour formulae are better coz they dont have refuelling or because they are spec series ? make up your mind 8)
No. Junior formulae are better because the cars are similar and relatively simple. That they don't have refuelling shows that refuelling isn't needed to make racing better. Quite simple really.
hence the presence of refuelling (i dont want 90s style refuelling...but just one fuel stop ) will give an alternative strategies and make the teams push their tyres and produce lighter and more nimbler car to overtake.
No it won't. The idea of "alternative strategies" is a red herring. Teams seldom do alternative things because, well, there is one quick way to run a race. Some teams do different things when they are out of position but generally, there is one winning strategy.
i dont think there has been any fatality due to refuelling in those 15 years
We had a few fires and people were burnt. Refuelling is an irrelevancy in anything other than endurance racing.
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komninosm
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Re: 2018 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 26-28 October

Post by komninosm » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:31 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:05 pm
komninosm wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:30 am

People here are just using whatever stats favor their bias and not looking at the whole thing or that correlation does not equal causation.
You don't need to add the artificial excitement, but very real danger, of refuelling to make F1 better. To think so is to be guilty of your own view of others as stated by you above.
You whole post is a logical fallacy, I was not the one saying biased things about the refueling era. I was making out cogent arguments about how refueling will add new strategies for pitting and also I added other ideas on how to make pitting less time consuming so it was favored more.

On the other hand, the "very real danger of refueling" is a joke since there has been no real big accident in F1, even some fires were practically non-injuries, while on the other hand, the ultra fast pitstops without refueling have indeed caused several dangerous accidents, broken legs, wheels going off and hitting people, etc.

So please, lay off the anti-refueling bandwagon.