2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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Mattchu
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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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Manoah2u wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:44 am
interesting comments about Vettel that he had no power immediately after the pitstop. I honestly can't help but wonder whether during the pitstop they didn't change the settings on the car. They can remotely anyway, just look at the fact Leclarc asked them to give them more/everything. And that it backfired on them. I'm not into too conspriacy stuff here, but something just really feels off.
I also like Vettel's interview right before. "Yeah 'im not ignorant' so we have to talk about that."
Pretty sure this is against the rules, they can advise the driver on what settings to input for maximum power but nothing can be remotely changed to make the PU give more ooomph...

This is the sort of time I`d love to be a team principle, you`d give the media the softly softly approach and tell them it`s not a big issue, blah, blah, blah...but then you`d get your drivers in a meeting with their respective engineers and maybe advisers or what not and absolutely give them what for.
They are driving for the Ferrari team and today they just took a massive dump on the hard work of thousands of various employees and millions of fans around the world! The whole world has just seen them act like school kids who didn`t get their sweets.
Fair play to Binotto/the team for shafting Seb at the pit stops [if he did what is being implied], although whether he agreed to the said drafting/giving the place back terms is something none of us will probably ever know!

dans79
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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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Just to add to my reverse grid comments.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14207 ... ids-for-21
"I personally think there are some references that we have to keep - the length of the race, and the nature of the race.

"I don't think reverse grids would be at the right level for F1. It works in other formulae, we know that from our own experience.


"We don't want it to be gimmicky. Because I think that will turn fans off."
Ross Brawn - March 13th 2019
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izzy
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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:38 pm
RE: Another Bianchi- It doesn't have to be only when cranes and recovery vehicles are involved. There can still be drivers and marshals running or walking around in run off areas and in danger of other cars which presents an inherent risk. The danger is not just to a crashing driver, but to any other persons in the area. The sport is right to take this incredibly seriously and eliminate as much risk as possible. I have zero problem with a race being stopped or neutralised under these circumstances. I do think maybe they are a little trigger happy these days and needn't always call for SC or VSC, but safety is paramount.

Stragegy being ruined etc? That's just good or bad luck, isn't it. Same as the weather. I'm ok with that. Besides which, at certain circuits planning for SC or VSC IS a valid part of strategy. It didn't work for Merc in Singapore, but it did in Russia- there's no question that they'd have factored that possibility in to their thinking when opting for mediums in qualifying. It's nowadays a valid tactic for teams to progress through the field, whether by design, or by happenstance.

Teams have been taking advantage of regular safety car periods for years and years. No-one ever moans about that. Why should VSC being taken advantage of in the same way be any different?
risk is a balance. if you don't accept any risk, you don't have a motor race, job done! At the same time, the purpose of the race is to show who's best, not who's lucky that day. So they have to minimise the risk while also minimising the role of luck, and there are things they can do to improve on the current way of dealing with stopped cars, like a local yellow and winching them off with a rope

I've just moaned about full safety cars btw :D

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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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izzy wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:52 pm
it was while they were in T1/2, watch at 15-18s, Charles could have gone through and given Seb his tow:
https://youtu.be/SXGTLj2cw3w
of course then Charles would've been towing everybody else too, but that wasn't the point in that run

So this set up Monza i think
Watching that again I don't see any opportunity for LEC to pass those other 3/4 cars before VET passed him and helped block the track. VET pushed pass LEC and still didn't get thru the traffic himself. LEC did nothing wrong.
Last edited by ENGINE TUNER on Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Restomaniac
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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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Juzh wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:51 am
Manoah2u wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:44 am
Juzh wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:40 am

You can freely drop the word "partially" from that last sentence. Leclerc confirmed in an interview it was all orchestrated by ferrari:
https://youtu.be/LG3E5SEK9Vg?t=479
interesting comments about Vettel that he had no power immediately after the pitstop. I honestly can't help but wonder whether during the pitstop they didn't change the settings on the car. They can remotely anyway, just look at the fact Leclarc asked them to give them more/everything. And that it backfired on them. I'm not into too conspriacy stuff here, but something just really feels off.
Pit to car telemetry of any kind is forbidden since ages ago. What drivers mean by "I want everything" and so on is whether or not they themselves in the car are allowed or not to change some switches to higher engines modes or something else beneficial to performance of the car.
Exactly.

Power plants on F1 cars are made to certain specs. That includes being ran at 110% only so often to stop them going pop constantly


LeClerc was asking if he could use 110%. The team need to look at their usage and engine feedback before giving the all clear.

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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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dans79 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:06 pm
Just to add to my reverse grid comments.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14207 ... ids-for-21
"I personally think there are some references that we have to keep - the length of the race, and the nature of the race.

"I don't think reverse grids would be at the right level for F1. It works in other formulae, we know that from our own experience.


"We don't want it to be gimmicky. Because I think that will turn fans off."
Ross Brawn - March 13th 2019
And now he has seen the light.

Changing fp3 into a 45 min reverse wdc position grid sprint race and keeping qually as it is and combining the results of both to generate the grid for the grand prix is the best solution.

At the moment the lead cars have far too much a head start and all the clean air. Plus it does not test the racecraft of a driver who has the fastest car enough.

But the biggest reason why this is being considered is because a majority of the tickets already sold for Saturday go unused. This will get people to the track on Saturday and that will greatly help the promoters/track owners. Qually only gives about 20 minutes of real on track action, that is not enough for people to get out to the track.

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izzy
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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:07 pm
izzy wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:52 pm
it was while they were in T1/2, watch at 15-18s, Charles could have gone through and given Seb his tow:
https://youtu.be/SXGTLj2cw3w
of course then Charles would've been towing everybody else too, but that wasn't the point in that run

So this set up Monza i think
Watching that again I don't see any opportunity for LEC to pass those other 3/4 cars before VET passed him and helped block the track. VET pushed pass LEC and still didn't get thru the traffic himself. LEC did nothing wrong.
if you look at the session clock in the graphic, Charles slows between T1 and T2 and it's like 1:27 already, so at that point the run is gone, tho there had been space for Charles to close up to Valtteri and then go through on the inside. So by slowing then instead of speeding up Charles killed Seb's lap. This is what he had to be 'forgiven' for after winning the race. it was a bit rosberg

dans79
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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:21 pm
dans79 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:06 pm
Just to add to my reverse grid comments.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14207 ... ids-for-21
"I personally think there are some references that we have to keep - the length of the race, and the nature of the race.

"I don't think reverse grids would be at the right level for F1. It works in other formulae, we know that from our own experience.


"We don't want it to be gimmicky. Because I think that will turn fans off."
Ross Brawn - March 13th 2019
But the biggest reason why this is being considered is because a majority of the tickets already sold for Saturday go unused. This will get people to the track on Saturday and that will greatly help the promoters/track owners.
I fail to see how this will help the promoters and track owners. The tickets have already been paid for so they've got that money, and they're not going to make much from concessions.
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Sierra117
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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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If you like the reverse grid insanity then go to your boss and tell him that at the end of the year when bonuses are handed out, you would prefer to get your salary deducted based on how hard you've worked.

These kinds of gimmicks are just that. Gimmicks. Everyone moans about high costs and making it cheaper for the smaller teams but now we're gonna have TWO races? That's gonna be great on the cars and engines right? In qualy you only get a couple of full beans laps and only mistakes by drivers that cause damage. In a race you get everything plus extra mileage plus more aggressive tyre usage. Whatever happened to conserving resources?

The problem is greed. The suits just want to make more money to line their pockets and hit their bottom lines and kpis and whatnot.
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Zarathustra
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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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Never mind- again.

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henry
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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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dans79 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:45 pm
henry wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:19 pm
The intention is NOT to have the fastest get to the front in the qualifying race. The objective is to have a two part RACE, a short part on the Saturday a longer part on the Sunday. That’s in contrast to the current form of the sport which is a two part TIME TRIAL.
That is not what i read.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/unanimous ... rse-grids/
The new style would see the drivers line up in reverse championship order on the Saturday and compete in a sprint race that would determine the starting grid for the Sunday grand prix.

“The intention is to have two or three races where instead of qualifying we have a reverse-grid sprint race,” Brawn explained.
Unless they are giving out points for the sprint race (not seen this mentioned anywhere), then all they are doing is hosing those at the front of the WDC rankings, for the sake of the "show". That is unacceptable as far as I'm concerned, as it's all just a gimick to appease the ficklest of fans.

Look at all the crying from yesterday over the VSC & SC. Do you think those people are going to act any differently when their driver starts 10th because of the sprint race?
henry wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:19 pm
The technical effort being put into the 2021 rules objectives is considerably more than has ever been made before. Have a look at the 2021 aero thread to catch up on this. It’s possible, as you say, that they won’t get things right but I believe Ross Brawn has rather more insight than any of us and will give it a better chance than previous changes.
Even if the FIA get it right, the teams will quickly undo it, because as i mentioned previously the teams have substantially more resources.
The two forms of qualifying will be identical. No points are awarded for the first part of the two part time trial that is the current qualification event and no points will be awarded for the first part of the two part race.

And yes there will people who will be upset if their favourite driver starts the main race in 10th rather than 1st as now. That will, I think, be mainly down to unfamiliarity and lack of understanding as opposed to the obvious issues with VSC and tyre changes. No doubt some people will never be reconciled. For them to argue that under the “old” system their driver would obviously have one might be a useful distraction.

In what way do you think the teams would try to undermine the intentions of the 2021 regs? It would be in their interests to build a car that follows really well so the only avenue will be to produce a disruptive wake. Whether they could do both would be interesting particularly since the following would be the absolute priority.

As for a show. That is what F1 is. A marketing show based on a sport.

For what it’s worth I think they’ll probably compromise and end up with a mixture incorporating the worst aspects of both.

And before I can even post this I see yours announcing that’s what they’ll do. Oh well.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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izzy wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:26 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:07 pm
izzy wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:52 pm
it was while they were in T1/2, watch at 15-18s, Charles could have gone through and given Seb his tow:
https://youtu.be/SXGTLj2cw3w
of course then Charles would've been towing everybody else too, but that wasn't the point in that run

So this set up Monza i think
Watching that again I don't see any opportunity for LEC to pass those other 3/4 cars before VET passed him and helped block the track. VET pushed pass LEC and still didn't get thru the traffic himself. LEC did nothing wrong.
if you look at the session clock in the graphic, Charles slows between T1 and T2 and it's like 1:27 already, so at that point the run is gone, tho there had been space for Charles to close up to Valtteri and then go through on the inside. So by slowing then instead of speeding up Charles killed Seb's lap. This is what he had to be 'forgiven' for after winning the race. it was a bit rosberg
Nonsense, there was no chance

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izzy
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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:15 pm
Nonsense, there was no chance
track in front with no car in it is a chance to go faster

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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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izzy wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:19 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:15 pm
Nonsense, there was no chance
track in front with no car in it is a chance to go faster
Did you forget HULK in the run off? There were 3 or 4 cars ahead of LEC, there was never a chance, the track was blocked, LEC saw it before VET did, or else VET would have got thru when he passed LEC.

dans79
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Re: 2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

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henry wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:05 pm
In what way do you think the teams would try to undermine the intentions of the 2021 regs? It would be in their interests to build a car that follows really well so the only avenue will be to produce a disruptive wake. Whether they could do both would be interesting particularly since the following would be the absolute priority.
They won't be actively/directly trying to undermine it.

But, just like in every previous rule change, the engineers will be doing everything they can to decrease lap times, and that will inevitably lead to developments technical or otherwise that make it hard for the cars to race closely.

For example Bubble gum tires and mandatory compound usage was introduced to, force more than 1 pit stop to offer alternative strategies. What did the teams do? That's right, they quickly figured out technical and strategic changes that made it so they only had to do one pit stop.

As I said before the teams have more resources, they will eventually figure out how to negate anything put in place by the fia that hinders them. Usually the situation ends up worse than it was before.
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