2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

[PlatinumZealot]

I’d be surprised if his touching damaged the wing. Is it really contravening the rules to touch a competitors car in parc ferme? Probably a reprimand at worse?

Yes. It is a serious offense. Even the days when Vettel pokes his head into other cars, he makes sure not to touch anything.

Max might be reprimanded, fined in the best case. For the worst case I don't know what the punishment is for touching another's car in Parc Ferme. I simply haven't seen this happen before!

[zibby43]

looks like he was measuring the gap between 2 endplates on the wing. Calls by Merc/HAM fans to DSQ him for "touching" wing is an attempt to hide cheating "illegal wing (result of Toto's wolf cry to throw everything)" shows how "honest" Merc as competitors are. Nothing more to add and say on this topic from me.

So rules are rules, unless it is Max involved and then it’s BS.

This is perfect.

[AeroDynamic]

Do the wings record enough data that Mercedes would have evidence it was under pressure / load / touch?

[PlatinumZealot]

Mercedes is in big trouble. To avoid DSQ, they have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Max was somehow able to adjust the DRS flap with his bare hands in just under a second.

What is this burden of proof that a team has to show a driver tampered with their car in Parc ferme? There is already video evidence of tampering.

On the damaged flap, It could be the wind as shown when Max's wing was vascillating or it could be from the tampering. Pushing the flap in reverse when it is only meant to take wind from the front could be an issue but it doesn't matter since the part was tampered with. Tampered evidence is not admissible.

[JordanMugen]

It is forbidden to touch a competitor’s car in parc ferme.
https://twitter.com/albertfabrega/statu ... 20553?s=21

Verstappen didn't apply any force though, he can say he left a 0.5mm gap to his finger and was merely comparing the slot gaps and didn't touch the wing anyway. The idea of a penalty for Verstappen is absurd. The disqualification for Hamilton should still stand.

Hamilton DSQ from qualifying is quite a good outcome for RBR, although Hamilton will be able to improve his starting place thanks to the Sprint (albeit plus five places on that).

[dans79]

It is forbidden to touch a competitor’s car in parc ferme.
https://twitter.com/albertfabrega/statu ... 20553?s=21

Verstappen didn't apply any force though. The disqualification for Hamilton should still stand.

Touching and force go hand in hand, you can't do one without the other!

Your argument should have been you don't think he applied enough force.

[jumpingfish]

Do we have better video than those 360p from Twitter to see that touch?

[Aesop]

Why is the redbull wing still legal after Max clearly applies much more pressure on it than on Hamiltons wing?

[dans79]

Why is the redbull wing still legal after Max clearly applies much more pressure on it than on Hamiltons wing?

different design, different construction methods, it could literally be anything, as we don't have enough details.

[Dee]

Hilarious that the FIA stewards can touch, inspect and move the wing, no?

How is it possible that they can do this if it can alter the car before it's tested? If the FIA allow Mercedes to get away with this "reasonable doubt" angle, the sport will be thrown in the bin.

Max did absolutey nothing that could have made that car fail a test and anyone that see's the closer video can see this as well.

[zibby43]

It is forbidden to touch a competitor’s car in parc ferme.
https://twitter.com/albertfabrega/statu ... 20553?s=21

Verstappen didn't apply any force though, he can say he left a 0.5mm gap to his finger and was merely comparing the slot gaps and didn't touch the wing anyway. The idea of a penalty for Verstappen is absurd. The disqualification for Hamilton should still stand.

Hamilton DSQ from qualifying is quite a good outcome for RBR, although Hamilton will be able to improve his starting place thanks to the Sprint (albeit plus five places on that).

If you can tell how hard he touched it from the 2 videos that I’ve seen, then you are some kind of special.

[Ryar]

The video is so blurry and from such a distance, it's hard to even say if he touched. He was probably checking if it has static charges on it by leaving some gap.

[Dee]

First of all the FIA need to say what parameters their officals work under, how much pressure do they put on the wing before/as they test it and in what areas. If they have working pressures that they can't go over i.e touch from their hands on the wing, then they need to get the pressure from Max's touch (if he actually touched it at all) and cross reference to see if he was able to apply enough pressure to alter the DRS. They need to have the pressure needed to alter the DRS of the Mercedes by touch and they need to know the pressure Max put on it (if he did).

If they don't have any of this, Max has no case to answer as the FIA staff themselves at any moment can alter a car and make it illegal during testing.

Mercedes need to provide the data
FIA need to provide their data
They need to know exactly how much pressure was excerted by Max (if he did touch it)

What? None of this is available?

So you have no evidence?

Splendid

We shall see what happens tomorrow

[dans79]

First of all the FIA need to say what parameters their officals work under, how much pressure do they put on the wing before/as they test it and in what areas. If they have working pressures that they can't go over i.e touch from their hands on the wing.

If you watched the video thats was posted earlier, the scrutineers never touched the wing.

If they don't have any of this, Max has no case to answer as the FIA staff themselves at any moment can alter a car and make it illegal during testing.

Mercedes need to provide the data
FIA need to provide their data
They need to know exactly how much pressure was excerted by Max (if he did touch it)

What? None of this is available?

So you have no evidence?

Splendid

We shall see what happens tomorrow

It doesn't work that way.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... 2021_0.pdf

12.1.1.b Attempts to commit offences or infringements are
also punishable

As you can see, even intent can get you in trouble.


I'm also sure other gotchas exist that I'm not aware of, in the more obscure fia documents and appendixes!

[Dee]

First of all the FIA need to say what parameters their officals work under, how much pressure do they put on the wing before/as they test it and in what areas. If they have working pressures that they can't go over i.e touch from their hands on the wing.

If you watched the video thats was posted earlier, the scrutineers never touched the wing.

If they don't have any of this, Max has no case to answer as the FIA staff themselves at any moment can alter a car and make it illegal during testing.

Mercedes need to provide the data
FIA need to provide their data
They need to know exactly how much pressure was excerted by Max (if he did touch it)

What? None of this is available?

So you have no evidence?

Splendid

We shall see what happens tomorrow

It doesn't work that way.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... 2021_0.pdf

12.1.1.b Attempts to commit offences or infringements are
also punishable

As you can see, even intent can get you in trouble.


I'm also sure other gotchas exist that I'm not aware of, in the more obscure fia documents and appendixes!

12.1.1.b Attempts to commit offences or infringements are
also punishable

This is covered by prescedent that goes back years. Hamilton and Vettel have touched cars in parc ferme and nothing was done, at most a warning for Vettel. The FIA cannot go further than that.

You would also have to prove intent, instead of negligence