2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
561
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

Post

the EDGE wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:09 pm
shamyakovic wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:03 pm

Could you tell me when was the last time in f1 history team mates where allowed to fight for the championship?
We may have to go back to the 80s
I know they didn't have nothing to lose, but the statement saying if merc will allow Lewis and George to race for championship is completely wrong.. they were the only team since 2014 who allowed this. Even in 2019 ferrari could not resist to impose team orders in the first race even when they had a very strong car.
Allowed… At least the last 15 years

Actually did… 2016
And 2013, 2014 and 2015 if you're talking about the Rosberg years. Or is it only 2016 because Rosberg won? The other years you think he didn't fight?
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

the EDGE
the EDGE
65
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:31 pm
Location: Bedfordshire ENGLAND

Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:16 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:09 pm
shamyakovic wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:03 pm

Could you tell me when was the last time in f1 history team mates where allowed to fight for the championship?
We may have to go back to the 80s
I know they didn't have nothing to lose, but the statement saying if merc will allow Lewis and George to race for championship is completely wrong.. they were the only team since 2014 who allowed this. Even in 2019 ferrari could not resist to impose team orders in the first race even when they had a very strong car.
Allowed… At least the last 15 years

Actually did… 2016
And 2013, 2014 and 2015 if you're talking about the Rosberg years. Or is it only 2016 because Rosberg won? The other years you think he didn't fight?
No, the question was when was the last time

Answer, 2016, since then Bottas was allowed, but didn’t mount much of a fight in the end

Rosberg was a formidable opponent

User avatar
AeroDynamic
337
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:25 am
Location: La règle du jeu

Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

Post

the EDGE wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:19 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:16 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:09 pm


Allowed… At least the last 15 years

Actually did… 2016
And 2013, 2014 and 2015 if you're talking about the Rosberg years. Or is it only 2016 because Rosberg won? The other years you think he didn't fight?
No, the question was when was the last time

Answer, 2016, since then Bottas was allowed, but didn’t mount much of a fight in the end

Rosberg was a formidable opponent

Formiddable;
inspiring fear or respect through being impressively large, powerful, intense, or capable.
Yeah.. I don't think anyone succeeds at striking any of those when you let someone come into a team you are making your own, and he beats you comfortably 3 years straight in your own team.

He's underrated and a 1.5 type of driver (Sainz, Ricciardo) level imo.

the EDGE
the EDGE
65
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:31 pm
Location: Bedfordshire ENGLAND

Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

Post

AeroDynamic wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:25 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:19 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:16 pm

And 2013, 2014 and 2015 if you're talking about the Rosberg years. Or is it only 2016 because Rosberg won? The other years you think he didn't fight?
No, the question was when was the last time

Answer, 2016, since then Bottas was allowed, but didn’t mount much of a fight in the end

Rosberg was a formidable opponent

Formiddable;
inspiring fear or respect through being impressively large, powerful, intense, or capable.
Yeah.. I don't think anyone succeeds at striking any of those when you let someone come into a team you are making your own, and he beats you comfortably 3 years straight in your own team.

He's underrated and a 1.5 type of driver (Sainz, Ricciardo) level imo.
… OR capable

Are you trying to tell me Rosberg wasn’t capable?

User avatar
AeroDynamic
337
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:25 am
Location: La règle du jeu

Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

Post

the EDGE wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:29 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:25 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:19 pm


No, the question was when was the last time

Answer, 2016, since then Bottas was allowed, but didn’t mount much of a fight in the end

Rosberg was a formidable opponent

Formiddable;
inspiring fear or respect through being impressively large, powerful, intense, or capable.
Yeah.. I don't think anyone succeeds at striking any of those when you let someone come into a team you are making your own, and he beats you comfortably 3 years straight in your own team.

He's underrated and a 1.5 type of driver (Sainz, Ricciardo) level imo.
… OR capable

Are you trying to tell me Rosberg wasn’t capable?
Capable of what? getting results out of an F1 car? of course. But in the context of inspiring 'fear or respect' through being 'impressively' capable?

I want to scratch my head.

Capable.. yes. Impressively so? I don't think so. I'd reserve that for drivers like Hamilton, Alonso, etc.. they are Formidable. If these guys don't take their foot off the gas, or have less than best season, you won't be beating them unless you are on their very level.

shamyakovic
shamyakovic
-2
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

Post

Nico rosberg is underrated. He was on another level...he beat two 7 times world champions in the same car, no one has ever done it before .... I would put him just below the legends and above the rest

User avatar
AeroDynamic
337
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:25 am
Location: La règle du jeu

Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

Post

shamyakovic wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:40 pm
Nico rosberg is underrated. He was on another level...he beat two 7 times world champions in the same car, no one has ever done it before .... I would put him just below the legends and above the rest
He beat Michael after he took a break out of F1 for 3 years and in terms of age, past his peak. (and during a time where car technology was booming)

He 'beat' Lewis when lewis took his foot off the gas in prep, suffered a significant reliability disparity to himself and barely edged him out. Without the disparity and the poor starts, Nico wouldn't have done much better than the previous two years at all.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
561
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

Post

the EDGE wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:19 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:16 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:09 pm


Allowed… At least the last 15 years

Actually did… 2016
And 2013, 2014 and 2015 if you're talking about the Rosberg years. Or is it only 2016 because Rosberg won? The other years you think he didn't fight?
No, the question was when was the last time

Answer, 2016, since then Bottas was allowed, but didn’t mount much of a fight in the end

Rosberg was a formidable opponent
Ah, I see what you meant now. Yes, that makes sense.

Bottas just seemed to lack consistency - on his day he was quick enough to take poles and wins, but you don't take titles by just having good days now and then. Rosberg did make Hamilton race him - who can forget the lovely fight between them in Bahrain in 2014, for example.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Watto
Watto
2
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2022 2:12 pm

Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

Post

Big Tea wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:47 pm
Watto wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:23 am
I think its great that it looks like battle between Merc, Ferrari and RB will make for a good season if it does, probably a few that look like they may push. But I think its hard to be certain who will win the driver and constructors championships is great to have
At the moment, I am not that sure Merc will be in that group, for the first race at least
It will be interesting to see; I probably agree with you. But I think they will sort their issues out before long, I don't think they were sandbagging but, I perhaps don't think their issues all that bad. Maybe how long it takes to get on top of them under the new regs will be interesting without the base of the the previous design.

User avatar
Chuckjr
32
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:34 am
Location: USA

Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

Post

All I want to say regarding Rosberg is, if he is a measure for greatness...that’s pretty sad. Beating him, imo is no bigger deal than Schumacher beating Herbert, or Hakkinen beating Coulthard. Really. Nobody sane would consider beating Coulthard or Herbert a measure of greatness, imo, anymore than beating Rosberg as some measure of great achievement.

Anyway, Merc is a beast of a team. I’m shocked they have built the car they have. It will be interesting to see how they recover and how long it takes. 🤔


Mod-edit: removed fuse from explosive device!!
Watching F1 since 1986.

User avatar
AeroDynamic
337
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:25 am
Location: La règle du jeu

Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

Post

Chuckjr wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:44 am
All I want to say regarding Rosberg is, if he is a measure for greatness...that’s pretty sad. Beating him, imo is no bigger deal than Schumacher beating Herbert, or Hakkinen beating Coulthard. Really. Nobody sane would consider beating Coulthard or Herbert a measure of greatness, imo, anymore than beating Rosberg as some measure of great achievement.

Anyway, Merc is a beast of a team. I’m shocked they have built the car they have. It will be interesting to see how they recover and how long it takes. 🤔
He dominated the man that usurped Schumacher, that some argue is one of the greatest, as a rookie though. That means he belongs in the best cars and dominated with them as expected.

And you are wrong. Hamilton could have beaten drivers like a Chandhok, Bottas etc if he was in the Ferrari in 17 and 18. Even Luca Cordero di Montezemolo said as much about Hamilton beating Vettel if he was in their Ferrari those years.

Rosberg, Sainz, Ricciardo and Vettel are not Herbert.

Leclerc - beaten by sainz
Verstappen - beaten by ricciardo
Norris - beaten by Sainz
Alonso lost h2h to Truli and was Beat by Hamilton

Great drivers don’t always win, the greatest just have a level that favour them to win much more than lose. And Hamilton has done that more than those drivers have in dominant cars and with lesser cars.

User avatar
Stu
Moderator
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:05 am
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

Post

A bit of a clean-up makes your post look like a bit of a rant, AD. Apologies for that.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

User avatar
Andres125sx
164
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

Post

I´ve always considered Rosberg title as a proof of Hamilton lack of motivation. Not saying he does not deserve it, none was faster than him that season so he deserve it. But let´s be honest, Rosberg has never been a rival of Hamilton in normal conditions. Similar to Button, Raikonnen, etc, a very good driver who, if in a top car, can win titles, but not a top class into the top class.

But this is F1, car and team counts even more than driver, so some top class into the top class never won a title, while some other lower class drivers won some. Like it or not, this is F1

User avatar
Airshifter
10
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:20 pm

Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

Post

Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:02 am
I´ve always considered Rosberg title as a proof of Hamilton lack of motivation. Not saying he does not deserve it, none was faster than him that season so he deserve it. But let´s be honest, Rosberg has never been a rival of Hamilton in normal conditions. Similar to Button, Raikonnen, etc, a very good driver who, if in a top car, can win titles, but not a top class into the top class.

But this is F1, car and team counts even more than driver, so some top class into the top class never won a title, while some other lower class drivers won some. Like it or not, this is F1
This is probably why everyone is watching testing and development threads so hard. As much as people like to put drivers in the spotlight, the cars are usually the larger factor. Much more often than not the WDC is driving the WCC car. People seem to look past this fact when talking about how strong the drivers are, but no driver can deliver beyond the machinery they are driving.


I just hope as the season progresses we can get more cars that are good enough to allow racing at the front. As much as I enjoy the tech and the fact that certain teams can reach a point of domination, it makes for boring racing. If too much rests on the car, the racing often suffers and we never really know who the best of the best drivers are IMHO.

silver
silver
5
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:50 am

Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

Post

Stu wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:50 am
A bit of a clean-up makes your post look like a bit of a rant, AD. Apologies for that.
Wouldn't it be awesome if there would be another "Driver d*** comparison" thread where this meaty discussion could belong? :D
A new season has started with a hope of another fascinating battle to unfold that would, on the face of testing data, could include more than 2 teams. The excitement brings me to this thread to see if there is further analysis of test data that help further develop the competitive landscape and as soon as you step in here, you skid upon that stuff coming out from strong strokes.