Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Can we use the mounting height of the turbine to say whether it is split or not? (maybe not)

Image

Image

Image

Check the height difference from Turbo to centre of the crank.

The Mercedes turbine seems much lower than Ferrari even when accounting for the bend in the exhaust for the Ferrari.

Image


However... the Honda also sports a very high mounted turbine like the Ferrari.

Image
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johnny comelately
johnny comelately
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:45 am
Can we use the mounting height of the turbine to say whether it is split or not? (maybe not)

https://i.imgur.com/lr4CHn2.jpg

https://d3cm515ijfiu6w.cloudfront.net/w ... 00x630.jpg

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/mi ... =2048x2048

Check the height difference from Turbo to centre of the crank.

The Mercedes turbine seems much lower than Ferrari even when accounting for the bend in the exhaust for the Ferrari.

https://i.imgur.com/zmshqnl.jpg


However... the Honda also sports a very high mounted turbine like the Ferrari.

https://i.redd.it/1g55sie6s7q81.png
Gawd, Schumacher Junior's thing is buggered isnt it !

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etusch
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Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: Turkey

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:45 am
Can we use the mounting height of the turbine to say whether it is split or not? (maybe not)

https://i.imgur.com/lr4CHn2.jpg

https://d3cm515ijfiu6w.cloudfront.net/w ... 00x630.jpg

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/mi ... =2048x2048

Check the height difference from Turbo to centre of the crank.

The Mercedes turbine seems much lower than Ferrari even when accounting for the bend in the exhaust for the Ferrari.

https://i.imgur.com/zmshqnl.jpg


However... the Honda also sports a very high mounted turbine like the Ferrari.

https://i.redd.it/1g55sie6s7q81.png
I think the part I marked isn't its place where it was when car was undamaged.

Image

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DutchPanther
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Apparently the overheating of the exhaust valve and entry of foreign matter into the turbine caused the failure of Charle's PU2
How hard can it be? ~Jeremious Clarksonious

gruntguru
gruntguru
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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"Foreign Material" = bits of exhaust valve? That would be more than a turbine failure.
je suis charlie

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codetower
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Is it possible that it's not a design flaw, but rather Leclerc's PU2 (and possibly some of the customers power units) just had a manufacturing flaw/defect?
“When a great team loses through complacency, it will constantly search for new and more intricate explanations to explain away defeat.”
― Pat Riley.

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Up to last time Binotto spoke to the press after Baku FERRARI had no idea what had caused Leclerc’s failure. This despite modern era sophisticated live telemetry more often than not giving them a warning an engine is about to go and drivers being ordered to stop the car to prevent serious damage to engine Leclerc suffered in Baku. Leclerc returned to his PU-1 after the Spanish failure so in Canada he will take PU-3 with no penalty, but if one of the failed turbo components of the PU cannot be repaired Leclerc will suffer a grid drop in Canada, meaning the best start he can hope for is 11 on the grid.

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Big Tea
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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saviour stivala wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:19 pm
Up to last time Binotto spoke to the press after Baku FERRARI had no idea what had caused Leclerc’s failure. This despite modern era sophisticated live telemetry more often than not giving them a warning an engine is about to go and drivers being ordered to stop the car to prevent serious damage to engine Leclerc suffered in Baku. Leclerc returned to his PU-1 after the Spanish failure so in Canada he will take PU-3 with no penalty, but if one of the failed turbo components of the PU cannot be repaired Leclerc will suffer a grid drop in Canada, meaning the best start he can hope for is 11 on the grid.

TBH, In that car the difference between 11th and last is probably 3 laps, so if there is any doubt it would be false economy to skimp. It is passing cars in the top 10 that will be the trouble anyway, below that just a minor inconvenience.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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DutchPanther
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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codetower wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:55 pm
Is it possible that it's not a design flaw, but rather Leclerc's PU2 (and possibly some of the customers power units) just had a manufacturing flaw/defect?
Sky sports was indeed talking about some supply chain effect and about how it has affected Ferrari
How hard can it be? ~Jeremious Clarksonious

mzso
mzso
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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saviour stivala wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 7:13 am
Leclerc’s PU-1 as used in Monaco and Baku had no upgrades/was not upgraded, couldn’t have been because the allowed ‘upgrades’ cannot be retrospectively fitted to an engine already in the pool. Sainz used PU-2 AT RACE 4 in Imola with only certain components being upgraded, but not all (not a full upgrades). Sainz PU-1 was repaired with original components (something which is permitted). For use in FP1-FP-2 + for use in Monaco race. Leclerc used the fully upgraded PU-2 in Miami and Spain. FERRARI was trying to postpone full upgrades to as late as possible.
Any sources for this? I can't see how all of this could be know outside Ferrari.

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Sieper
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Big Tea wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:14 am
saviour stivala wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:19 pm
Up to last time Binotto spoke to the press after Baku FERRARI had no idea what had caused Leclerc’s failure. This despite modern era sophisticated live telemetry more often than not giving them a warning an engine is about to go and drivers being ordered to stop the car to prevent serious damage to engine Leclerc suffered in Baku. Leclerc returned to his PU-1 after the Spanish failure so in Canada he will take PU-3 with no penalty, but if one of the failed turbo components of the PU cannot be repaired Leclerc will suffer a grid drop in Canada, meaning the best start he can hope for is 11 on the grid.

TBH, In that car the difference between 11th and last is probably 3 laps, so if there is any doubt it would be false economy to skimp. It is passing cars in the top 10 that will be the trouble anyway, below that just a minor inconvenience.
But with the rest they are not on the limit, so why take it early?
Controversy does not have a short memory.

Gillian
Gillian
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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saviour stivala wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:19 pm
Up to last time Binotto spoke to the press after Baku FERRARI had no idea what had caused Leclerc’s failure. This despite modern era sophisticated live telemetry more often than not giving them a warning an engine is about to go and drivers being ordered to stop the car to prevent serious damage to engine Leclerc suffered in Baku. Leclerc returned to his PU-1 after the Spanish failure so in Canada he will take PU-3 with no penalty, but if one of the failed turbo components of the PU cannot be repaired Leclerc will suffer a grid drop in Canada, meaning the best start he can hope for is 11 on the grid.
Are you sure that's correct?
According to the components used Leclerc was driving PU1 in Barcelona.
At least, this is what I could find:

ICE | TC | MGU-H | MGU-K | ES | CE | EX
1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2

Edit:
I did find this quote now:
“The plan of the team was to introduce the second unit between the weekend in Miami and Barcelona after completing the data collection program regarding reliability. However, after the problem encountered [in Australia], the Maranello team has decided as a precaution to bring forward the introduction of Power Unit number 2.”
source:
https://thejudge13.com/2022/06/13/ferra ... -for-baku/

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Yes. The plan was to introduce a fully upgraded PU-2 in Miami. But those plans were disrupted by Sainz PU-1 problems. FERRARI was forced to repair Sainz PU-1 with standard parts. So Sainz PU-1 was technically not upgraded, this because upgrades cannot be fitted to PU’S already in the pool. At Imola Sainz took partially upgraded PU-2 while his PU-1 went into FP1 – FP2 service. In Miami Leclerc took fully upgraded PU-2. This PU failed in Spain. For Monaco and Baku Leclerc used PU-1. This PU failed in Baku. As contrary to Sainz PU-1 Leclerc’s PU-1 had no problems, no new parts could be fitted to it, like they did to Sainz’s PU-1. And of course neither any by then ready to be used upgrades either, because this PU-1 was already in use. All that means that Leclerc’s PU-1 was as standard as its first race. A note here. Although the word ‘’PU’’ was used, we are actually talking about the ICE part of the ‘’PU’’. Other components of the PU were for sure replaced on it.

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Big Tea
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Sieper wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:51 am
Big Tea wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:14 am
saviour stivala wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:19 pm
Up to last time Binotto spoke to the press after Baku FERRARI had no idea what had caused Leclerc’s failure. This despite modern era sophisticated live telemetry more often than not giving them a warning an engine is about to go and drivers being ordered to stop the car to prevent serious damage to engine Leclerc suffered in Baku. Leclerc returned to his PU-1 after the Spanish failure so in Canada he will take PU-3 with no penalty, but if one of the failed turbo components of the PU cannot be repaired Leclerc will suffer a grid drop in Canada, meaning the best start he can hope for is 11 on the grid.

TBH, In that car the difference between 11th and last is probably 3 laps, so if there is any doubt it would be false economy to skimp. It is passing cars in the top 10 that will be the trouble anyway, below that just a minor inconvenience.
But with the rest they are not on the limit, so why take it early?
Because its 'life' will start from this week. They can be more flexible about changing it in future and in the 'extra time' gained there may be a development that would not have been included in an earlier engine change.

Nothing is for nothing, but getting back up to 10th place here is about as close as it gets.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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Sieper
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Big Tea wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:26 pm
Sieper wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:51 am
Big Tea wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:14 am



TBH, In that car the difference between 11th and last is probably 3 laps, so if there is any doubt it would be false economy to skimp. It is passing cars in the top 10 that will be the trouble anyway, below that just a minor inconvenience.
But with the rest they are not on the limit, so why take it early?
Because its 'life' will start from this week. They can be more flexible about changing it in future and in the 'extra time' gained there may be a development that would not have been included in an earlier engine change.

Nothing is for nothing, but getting back up to 10th place here is about as close as it gets.
They wont get an extra penalty for taking another ICE as they are on 2 used, and you can take 3. They wont be dropped from 10 to 20 if they take an extra ICE. it will just mean they are on the limit now already instead of later.
Controversy does not have a short memory.