Pre-silly-season-silliness.

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Big Tea
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Re: Pre-silly-season-silliness.

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The Prodigy wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:57 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:45 pm
aran.vtec wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:26 pm


I feel the same and with Norris on top form with the added pressure Mclaren themselves have to perform, Might not be the best environment for a rookie
He does not have to do better than Lando to be a success, just better than Danny.
At least for the first year
A rookie should show potential in the first year and massively improve in the second year. Lando is a good example for that.
Well there are many who rate Danny as 'one of the better drivers', so out performing him should put him higher than just the first step on the ladder. He can not lose unless its a real disaster, then he can claim its the car, look how Danny struggled.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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RedNEO
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Re: Pre-silly-season-silliness.

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:11 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:19 pm
It would be ironic if after all this Piastri ends up getting Vandoorned by Norris lol
It wouldn’t be much different than what is happening today, with the caveat that Piastri will cost way less than Daniel, not much lost for McLaren if that’s the case.
From my understanding of it(and I could be wrong) I think McLaren is hoping Alpine will want Ricciardo enough to buy him out of his contract so they don’t have to. Currently it looks like they will be paying not only Daniel’s salary but Oscar’s too, for a rookie to drive for them. I think that’s why we haven’t had any team announcements.
Last edited by RedNEO on Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RedNEO
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Re: Pre-silly-season-silliness.

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:14 pm
djos wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:11 pm
aran.vtec wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:08 pm


The way teams are fighting over him its like he's the next lewis/Charles/Max/russel and they all beat their teammates
Well he’s the Only driver to ever win all 3 junior championship’s, and do it in his rookie season for each championship.
He took F3 and F2 in his only season in each. Formula Renault took him 2 attempts. And he didn't win F4.

By comparison Russell won F4 on his first attempt, didn't win F3 having tried twice, won GP3 and F2 on his first attempt at each. And Max never won a junior car series, having done only 1 season between karts and F1. Lewis won Formula Renault and F3 at the second attempt of each before winning GP2 on his first attempt. Seb only won one feeder series - Formula BMW ADAC. Fernando won one feeder series out of the two he did between karts and F1.

So Piastri's record isn't uniquely good - albeit that it is very good - and, of course, feeder results don't guarantee F1 results.

It's worth remembering that junior series record only gives an indication - you need also to look at who they're racing.
Nicely detailed run down, I hardly knew any of this.
=D>

SmallSoldier
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Re: Pre-silly-season-silliness.

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RedNEO wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:16 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:11 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:19 pm
It would be ironic if after all this Piastri ends up getting Vandoorned by Norris lol
It wouldn’t be much different than what is happening today, with the caveat that Piastri will cost way less than Daniel, not much lost for McLaren if that’s the case.
From my understanding of it(and I could be wrong) I think McLaren is hoping Alpine will want Ricciardo enough to buy him out of his contract so they don’t have to. Currently it looks like they will be paying not only Daniel’s salary but Oscar’s too, for a rookie to drive for them. I think that’s why we haven’t had any team announcements.
That’s a possibility… I honestly don’t know what is in Daniel’s contract… I have no reason to doubt Zak when he said earlier in the year that there are “mechanisms” in place to part ways with Daniel if it came down to it… Nor have I read from anyone in the McLaren camp saying that there is no out for the Team… I’m afraid this is one of those situations when a “journalist” puts something out and simply because it isn’t denied by the Team or the driver and it just gets repeated enough that it becomes a “fact”.

At the end, we don’t know what the contracts say… Apparently everyone’s assumption that there was an option in Oscar’s contract that expired on July 31st wasn’t accurate (there was never an option, or a signed one).

Neither Daniel nor McLaren have made any comments, which tells me that they are working through it and it’s not as simple as McLaren paying him out for 2023.

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RedNEO
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Re: Pre-silly-season-silliness.

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:19 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:16 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:11 pm


It wouldn’t be much different than what is happening today, with the caveat that Piastri will cost way less than Daniel, not much lost for McLaren if that’s the case.
From my understanding of it(and I could be wrong) I think McLaren is hoping Alpine will want Ricciardo enough to buy him out of his contract so they don’t have to. Currently it looks like they will be paying not only Daniel’s salary but Oscar’s too, for a rookie to drive for them. I think that’s why we haven’t had any team announcements.
That’s a possibility… I honestly don’t know what is in Daniel’s contract… I have no reason to doubt Zak when he said earlier in the year that there are “mechanisms” in place to part ways with Daniel if it came down to it… Nor have I read from anyone in the McLaren camp saying that there is no out for the Team… I’m afraid this is one of those situations when a “journalist” puts something out and simply because it isn’t denied by the Team or the driver and it just gets repeated enough that it becomes a “fact”.

At the end, we don’t know what the contracts say… Apparently everyone’s assumption that there was an option in Oscar’s contract that expired on July 31st wasn’t accurate (there was never an option, or a signed one).

Neither Daniel nor McLaren have made any comments, which tells me that they are working through it and it’s not as simple as McLaren paying him out for 2023.
If McLaren pays him his full salary just like what happened with Kimi at Ferrari if he races than he forfeits it. Kimi chose to not race for two years and keep the money. So McLaren can be let off the hook if Ricciardo finds a drive..

I don’t think there’s anything to worry about I’m sure McLaren are working with Daniel to find a seat.

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Mogster
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Re: Pre-silly-season-silliness.

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RedNEO wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:17 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:14 pm
djos wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:11 pm


Well he’s the Only driver to ever win all 3 junior championship’s, and do it in his rookie season for each championship.
He took F3 and F2 in his only season in each. Formula Renault took him 2 attempts. And he didn't win F4.

By comparison Russell won F4 on his first attempt, didn't win F3 having tried twice, won GP3 and F2 on his first attempt at each. And Max never won a junior car series, having done only 1 season between karts and F1. Lewis won Formula Renault and F3 at the second attempt of each before winning GP2 on his first attempt. Seb only won one feeder series - Formula BMW ADAC. Fernando won one feeder series out of the two he did between karts and F1.

So Piastri's record isn't uniquely good - albeit that it is very good - and, of course, feeder results don't guarantee F1 results.

It's worth remembering that junior series record only gives an indication - you need also to look at who they're racing.
Nicely detailed run down, I hardly knew any of this.
=D>
Piastri was run pretty close in FIA F3 by Pourchaire and Sargeant.

He clearly deserves an F1 seat but his arrival seems to be generating close to hysteria. Joining Mclaren with Norris having his feet planted firmly under the table is not going to be easy, the car doesn’t appear to be straightforward to drive. As others have said a Vandoorning would seem possible. Joining Ocon at Alpine would seem to invite less pressure, less expectation.

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RedNEO
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Re: Pre-silly-season-silliness.

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Mogster wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:43 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:17 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:14 pm

He took F3 and F2 in his only season in each. Formula Renault took him 2 attempts. And he didn't win F4.

By comparison Russell won F4 on his first attempt, didn't win F3 having tried twice, won GP3 and F2 on his first attempt at each. And Max never won a junior car series, having done only 1 season between karts and F1. Lewis won Formula Renault and F3 at the second attempt of each before winning GP2 on his first attempt. Seb only won one feeder series - Formula BMW ADAC. Fernando won one feeder series out of the two he did between karts and F1.

So Piastri's record isn't uniquely good - albeit that it is very good - and, of course, feeder results don't guarantee F1 results.

It's worth remembering that junior series record only gives an indication - you need also to look at who they're racing.
Nicely detailed run down, I hardly knew any of this.
=D>
Piastri was run pretty close in FIA F3 by Pourchaire and Sargeant.

He clearly deserves an F1 seat but his arrival seems to be generating close to hysteria. Joining Mclaren with Norris having his feet planted firmly under the table is not going to be easy, the car doesn’t appear to be straightforward to drive. As others have said a Vandoorning would seem possible. Joining Ocon at Alpine would seem to invite less pressure, less expectation.
Yeah the hysteria is like everyone has been put under a trance.. something similar but nowhere near this extent happened with “Unstoffable” until it didn’t. But him being in McLaren definitely makes it more entertaining because we will get answers almost immediately.

JPower
JPower
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Re: Pre-silly-season-silliness.

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Mogster wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:43 pm



Piastri was run pretty close in FIA F3 by Pourchaire and Sargeant.

He clearly deserves an F1 seat but his arrival seems to be generating close to hysteria. Joining Mclaren with Norris having his feet planted firmly under the table is not going to be easy, the car doesn’t appear to be straightforward to drive. As others have said a Vandoorning would seem possible. Joining Ocon at Alpine would seem to invite less pressure, less expectation.
None of the 2022 cars are easy to drive.

Regardless, he shouldn't be racing if he doesn't think he can get to the level of Norris eventually. He'll have a fairly long leash his first season to get up to speed.

Its obvious Alpine made promises they couldn't keep and trust was lost between the two. It happens, move to Plan B.

JPower
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Re: Pre-silly-season-silliness.

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Redragon wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:09 pm
sunny1304r wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:19 pm
For all these noise, Piastri will be under extreme pressure to deliver. This might not be good for his career.
Norris was too and turn out alright!, Zack was right on giving Norris a chance, Let's see how Piastri handle it before any conclusions. If he made the apexes will be already better than Ricciardo.

What sucks about the telemetry we get is that is doesn't tell us how hard the brake is being used. Its pretty well known the McLaren needs to be driven hard on the brakes on turn in. Just like last year, Lando does it right and almost stabs the brakes to get the nose in. Ricciardo just rolls through the corners like he always done. The car doesn't have the front DF to do that style. I don't know if any of the 2022 cars do.

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong but I still don't understand how he hasn't adapted his style after all this time.

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djos
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Re: Pre-silly-season-silliness.

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DChemTech wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:54 pm
djos wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:11 pm
aran.vtec wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:08 pm


The way teams are fighting over him its like he's the next lewis/Charles/Max/russel and they all beat their teammates
Well he’s the Only driver to ever win all 3 junior championship’s, and do it in his rookie season for each championship.
Which is the 1st one that you refer to? As far as wikipedia is concerned, he was 2nd in F4 (British, after a prior run in F4 UAE) and won Formula Renault in his 2nd year there.

But still, F3 and F2 rookie wins are impressive, and it's a bit of a surprise that Alpine did not take him in, or try harder to station him elsewhere, last year. Not as a replacement of Alonso, but of Ocon - who had a good run in the juniors as well (rookie F3 and GP3 winner), but in his early F1 career was mainly remembered for being the guy that got in a rumble with the race leader trying to unlap himself, and a bit of cheekiness right after. In the time after, Ocon's had his moments, including a win, but overall hasn't majorly impressed.
Ah sorry, I thought it was his rookie season in formula Renault, but you are correct, it was his second season.
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langedweil
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Re: Pre-silly-season-silliness.

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:11 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:19 pm
It would be ironic if after all this Piastri ends up getting Vandoorned by Norris lol
It wouldn’t be much different than what is happening today, with the caveat that Piastri will cost way less than Daniel, not much lost for McLaren if that’s the case.
Well, the first year he'll be more expensive than Ricc by itself, as it's the buyout + salary ?
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Dernie Ecclestone
Dernie Ecclestone
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Re: Pre-silly-season-silliness.

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Why pick McLaren over Renault? Their car seems more developed and actually has a livery not childish looking Google logos. What am I missing.

SmallSoldier
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Re: Pre-silly-season-silliness.

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langedweil wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:37 am
SmallSoldier wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:11 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:19 pm
It would be ironic if after all this Piastri ends up getting Vandoorned by Norris lol
It wouldn’t be much different than what is happening today, with the caveat that Piastri will cost way less than Daniel, not much lost for McLaren if that’s the case.
Well, the first year he'll be more expensive than Ricc by itself, as it's the buyout + salary ?
A lot of assumptions made in regards to the amount of the buyout, which would depend on the clauses in his contract (performance clauses), in addition, if Daniel has another ride, McLaren won’t be paying the full amount (or potentially any amount at all)… If McLaren pays Daniel his full salary, they could make him seat the 2023 season and I don’t think Daniel would like that.

So, most probably a reduction of cost for McLaren for the second seat

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Big Tea
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Re: Pre-silly-season-silliness.

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Dernie Ecclestone wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:44 am
Why pick McLaren over Renault? Their car seems more developed and actually has a livery not childish looking Google logos. What am I missing.
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selvam_e2002
selvam_e2002
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Re: Pre-silly-season-silliness.

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It is a combined effort from Alonso,Webber,Oscar to screw Alpine at right time. Thanks to Vettel.

I am little worried by Oscar, he may be similar challenges when Vandroone drove along with Alonso. Norris is very strong in Mclaren. He may destroy Oscar.