2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems
mwillems
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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I think the team will focus on sporting targets, not financial ones.

The finances are complicated, Dans name and prestige will have brought in funds via sponsors and it will have in part paid for itself. I don't think anyone can deny that having that first win on the board for 10 years and the first 1-2 at all of 2021 will have done wonders for our brand. Even finishing 4th, that win would have propelled our image more towards the elite teams again, and who knows, maybe this is how the Google deal came to pass.

However this is a sporting decision I believe. Piastri may also not deliver high end points next year, but the team may well view it that Dan won't either. So when faced between the choice of an ageing driver who can't adapt and the most exciting young prospect who doesn't have a drive, it seems sensible to take the driver who the team can mold around their car and their processes.

I'm excited to see what Piastri can do and to see how quickly he gets up to speed vs Landos first 3 years.
Last edited by mwillems on Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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RedNEO
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:01 am
RedNEO wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:09 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:57 pm

I don’t know about that… Alonso is great, but Ocon was their long term bet… They had to make a decision, either continue with a short term fantastic driver (Alonso) or a long term high potential driver (Piastri)… The problem for Alpine was trying to have both at the same time and it just wasn’t possible, they didn’t only believed that they could, they were sure they had all the cards


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If Ocon is there long term bet they should be happy then right?
He is in 3 - 4 year contract isn’t he? That’s long term by F1 standards
It’s not really Alonso’s problem anymore, Alonso has what he wants. Alpines obsession with focusing on age instead of performance ultimately was there downfall. This isn’t an exact science and every human is different and has different needs.. Aston Martin saw what Alonso could offer and snapped him up immediately which was a top team esq move.

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RedNEO
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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CjC wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:40 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:47 pm
I’m not getting the impression McLaren fans are ecstatic about Piastri joining on all platforms.. seems fairly muted surprisingly
As a Mclaren fan I’m not even sure if Piastri will race for the team next season!!😂

I was muted when the line up was Carlos and Lando pre 2019…. Look how that turned out👍🏻
I was stoked when Ricciardo signed pre 2020… look how that turned out🙈
Think I’ll keep my expectation muted till we see the laptimes…🤣
It’s going to be an exciting paring to watch.. I’m super excited to see the dynamic. See you on the battlefield next year 😁

mwillems
mwillems
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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RedNEO wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:30 am
CjC wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:40 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:47 pm
I’m not getting the impression McLaren fans are ecstatic about Piastri joining on all platforms.. seems fairly muted surprisingly
As a Mclaren fan I’m not even sure if Piastri will race for the team next season!!😂

I was muted when the line up was Carlos and Lando pre 2019…. Look how that turned out👍🏻
I was stoked when Ricciardo signed pre 2020… look how that turned out🙈
Think I’ll keep my expectation muted till we see the laptimes…🤣
It’s going to be an exciting paring to watch.. I’m super excited to see the dynamic. See you on the battlefield next year 😁
I'm sure we'll check our mirrors occasionally 🤣
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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If Dan drives, he gets paid, if he does not drive he gets paid. The only advantage of changing seats would be if someone gives him more than he would get anyway and there are only 4 teams that would possibly do that, and 3 a re full.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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RedNEO
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:34 am
RedNEO wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:30 am
CjC wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:40 pm


As a Mclaren fan I’m not even sure if Piastri will race for the team next season!!😂

I was muted when the line up was Carlos and Lando pre 2019…. Look how that turned out👍🏻
I was stoked when Ricciardo signed pre 2020… look how that turned out🙈
Think I’ll keep my expectation muted till we see the laptimes…🤣
It’s going to be an exciting paring to watch.. I’m super excited to see the dynamic. See you on the battlefield next year 😁
I'm sure we'll check our mirrors occasionally 🤣
Image
😉

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RS200E
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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djos wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:04 am
McL-H wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:43 pm
That sums it all up doesn’t it. But let’s not forget Lando is on-par with the likes of Hamilton and Verstappen. Changing the 2nd driver might not lead to different results. I mean, we’ve seen the same last year between Verstappen/Perez and to a lesser degree Hamilton/Bottas. Perez and Bottas are not bad drivers. It’s just that their teammates came from a different planet. It could be very well that this time next year, Norris has ended Piastri’s career.
Daniel has beaten Max in the same car, Vettel in the same car and stolen wins from the most dominant team ever to exist in F1, Mercedes.

It’s clear where the problem lies, Mclaren’s car philosophy!
That was all in the distant past. Max progressed far far far beyond Riccardo. The problem lies with Ricciardo's inability, as can be seen by the fact that a younger less experienced teammate is thoroughly embarrassing him nearly 2 full seasons in a row.

Edax
Edax
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Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:47 pm

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:45 am
I think the team will focus on sporting targets, not financial ones.

The finances are complicated, Dans name and prestige will have brought in funds via sponsors and it will have in part paid for itself. I don't think anyone can deny that having that first win on the board for 10 years and the first 1-2 at all of 2021 will have done wonders for our brand. Even finishing 4th, that win would have propelled our image more towards the elite teams again, and who knows, maybe this is how the Google deal came to pass.

However this is a sporting decision I believe. Piastri may also not deliver high end points next year, but the team may well view it that Dan won't either. So when faced between the choice of an ageing driver who can't adapt and the most exciting young prospect who doesn't have a drive, it seems sensible to take the driver who the team can mold around their car and their processes.

I'm excited to see what Piastri can do and to see how quickly he gets up to speed vs Landos first 3 years.
Mclaren is not in a position that they can afford not to look at finances. Obviously they are in much better shape with the capital injection new sponsors and selling their headquarters.

But that does not automatically mean that they can afford to spend more on the salary of their second driver than ferrari does on their first.

They had to invest a lot of money to lock in Lando. If they now see an opportunity in the contract to reduce the cost on Ricciardo i guess they take it.

Anyway I think drive to survive is going to be interesting to watch next year.

mwillems
mwillems
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Edax wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:04 pm
mwillems wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:45 am
I think the team will focus on sporting targets, not financial ones.

The finances are complicated, Dans name and prestige will have brought in funds via sponsors and it will have in part paid for itself. I don't think anyone can deny that having that first win on the board for 10 years and the first 1-2 at all of 2021 will have done wonders for our brand. Even finishing 4th, that win would have propelled our image more towards the elite teams again, and who knows, maybe this is how the Google deal came to pass.

However this is a sporting decision I believe. Piastri may also not deliver high end points next year, but the team may well view it that Dan won't either. So when faced between the choice of an ageing driver who can't adapt and the most exciting young prospect who doesn't have a drive, it seems sensible to take the driver who the team can mold around their car and their processes.

I'm excited to see what Piastri can do and to see how quickly he gets up to speed vs Landos first 3 years.
Mclaren is not in a position that they can afford not to look at finances. Obviously they are in much better shape with the capital injection new sponsors and selling their headquarters.

But that does not automatically mean that they can afford to spend more on the salary of their second driver than ferrari does on their first.

They had to invest a lot of money to lock in Lando. If they now see an opportunity in the contract to reduce the cost on Ricciardo i guess they take it.

Anyway I think drive to survive is going to be interesting to watch next year.

1) Prior to the budget cap and during Covid, no. But as an example, in the previous financial years accounts the F1 team made revenues of £212m and the teams budget for this year is around £124m. Capital expenditure (Wind tunnel) is not covered by the team, which leaves them £90m to spend on Driver and executive salaries and other misc expenses, so they can choose to make sporting decisions over financial if that is how they want to spend their money.

2) That assumes that they would pay Daniel for the full remainder of his contract. This is unlikely if he gets another seat, which he probably will. So whatever they pay Piastri next year added to whatever they pay off to Dan will still likely amount to less than what they would have paid Dan anyway. And if Dan gets paid for his full year, I don't think the extra cost of Piastri is anything to worry about.

In terms of commercial sponsorship, Lando is probably becoming a strong enough sponsor attraction in his own right now, as are Mclaren.

So to be fair to Dan, he did give us a leg up financially I expect, even if he couldn't do it in a sporting sense, but I'd like to think the team can maintain their current profile without him now.


https://www.grandprix247.com/2022/01/10 ... nancially/
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
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Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:54 am

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:45 am
I think the team will focus on sporting targets, not financial ones.

The finances are complicated, Dans name and prestige will have brought in funds via sponsors and it will have in part paid for itself. I don't think anyone can deny that having that first win on the board for 10 years and the first 1-2 at all of 2021 will have done wonders for our brand. Even finishing 4th, that win would have propelled our image more towards the elite teams again, and who knows, maybe this is how the Google deal came to pass.

However this is a sporting decision I believe. Piastri may also not deliver high end points next year, but the team may well view it that Dan won't either. So when faced between the choice of an ageing driver who can't adapt and the most exciting young prospect who doesn't have a drive, it seems sensible to take the driver who the team can mold around their car and their processes.

I'm excited to see what Piastri can do and to see how quickly he gets up to speed vs Landos first 3 years.
They are not mutually exclusive… Just as the win in Monza brought great PR to the Team and increase the value of their card, the constant questioning of his performance (or lack thereof) counteract that positive largely also… The first half of the season assessment of McLaren isn’t a positive one and that is in a big part because their second driver isn’t delivering and that has a negative impact financially.

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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RedNEO wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:23 am
SmallSoldier wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:01 am
RedNEO wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:09 pm


If Ocon is there long term bet they should be happy then right?
He is in 3 - 4 year contract isn’t he? That’s long term by F1 standards
It’s not really Alonso’s problem anymore, Alonso has what he wants. Alpines obsession with focusing on age instead of performance ultimately was there downfall. This isn’t an exact science and every human is different and has different needs.. Aston Martin saw what Alonso could offer and snapped him up immediately which was a top team esq move.
Not disagreeing regarding Alonso, I also think that if he had the will to go for 2-3 more years, from an ability perspective he can deliver.

mwillems
mwillems
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:21 pm
mwillems wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:45 am
I think the team will focus on sporting targets, not financial ones.

The finances are complicated, Dans name and prestige will have brought in funds via sponsors and it will have in part paid for itself. I don't think anyone can deny that having that first win on the board for 10 years and the first 1-2 at all of 2021 will have done wonders for our brand. Even finishing 4th, that win would have propelled our image more towards the elite teams again, and who knows, maybe this is how the Google deal came to pass.

However this is a sporting decision I believe. Piastri may also not deliver high end points next year, but the team may well view it that Dan won't either. So when faced between the choice of an ageing driver who can't adapt and the most exciting young prospect who doesn't have a drive, it seems sensible to take the driver who the team can mold around their car and their processes.

I'm excited to see what Piastri can do and to see how quickly he gets up to speed vs Landos first 3 years.
They are not mutually exclusive… Just as the win in Monza brought great PR to the Team and increase the value of their card, the constant questioning of his performance (or lack thereof) counteract that positive largely also… The first half of the season assessment of McLaren isn’t a positive one and that is in a big part because their second driver isn’t delivering and that has a negative impact financially.
It's easy to forget that Daniel finished 8th to Landos 6th and got a win last year, it's not been too bad until this year, but that is dealt with so I don't expect there to be much impact.

It's important to remember that the bickering in here is not known to the wider public, they will see the largely positive aspect of our upward trajectory, they will see the win and they will see Dan's face, who irrespective of results and some questions that they will probably still relate to and like and embrace, along with the Mclaren brand he is associated with. His exit is also associated with the brand though and this is where I suspect we will take the Danny Ric hit, how we treat Daniel in this period is really important for Mclaren going forward and if you think about it, Daniel's advisors probably know that. Financially he holds all of the cards.

Even that is simplifying it, but results aren't everything for the sponsorship.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:59 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:21 pm
mwillems wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:45 am
I think the team will focus on sporting targets, not financial ones.

The finances are complicated, Dans name and prestige will have brought in funds via sponsors and it will have in part paid for itself. I don't think anyone can deny that having that first win on the board for 10 years and the first 1-2 at all of 2021 will have done wonders for our brand. Even finishing 4th, that win would have propelled our image more towards the elite teams again, and who knows, maybe this is how the Google deal came to pass.

However this is a sporting decision I believe. Piastri may also not deliver high end points next year, but the team may well view it that Dan won't either. So when faced between the choice of an ageing driver who can't adapt and the most exciting young prospect who doesn't have a drive, it seems sensible to take the driver who the team can mold around their car and their processes.

I'm excited to see what Piastri can do and to see how quickly he gets up to speed vs Landos first 3 years.
They are not mutually exclusive… Just as the win in Monza brought great PR to the Team and increase the value of their card, the constant questioning of his performance (or lack thereof) counteract that positive largely also… The first half of the season assessment of McLaren isn’t a positive one and that is in a big part because their second driver isn’t delivering and that has a negative impact financially.
It's easy to forget that Daniel finished 8th to Landos 6th and got a win last year, it's not been too bad until this year, but that is dealt with so I don't expect there to be much impact.

It's important to remember that the bickering in here is not known to the wider public, they will see the largely positive aspect of our upward trajectory, they will see the win and they will see Dan's face, who irrespective of results and some questions that they will probably still relate to and like and embrace, along with the Mclaren brand he is associated with. His exit is also associated with the brand though and this is where I suspect we will take the Danny Ric hit, how we treat Daniel in this period is really important for Mclaren going forward and if you think about it, Daniel's advisors probably know that. Financially he holds all of the cards.

Even that is simplifying it, but results aren't everything for the sponsorship.
Most definitely… The reason for the lack of any kind of announcement or statement so far is an indication that they are trying to manage the situation behind the scenes as well as possible… I also believe that McLaren has a very good PR / Marketing Team and will try to end the situation in a positive way for all involved.

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RS200E
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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It will do more harm than good to procrastinate if they are eventually going to show him the door. Nearly every race his sad depressed face and those lame excuses are associated with his face, and therefore with every sponsor. The sponsors won't be happy seeing that. The all smiling Riccardo is a thing of the past. The Monza win is a thing of the past. What is needed now is a driver who performs close to Norris and will develop to match Norris in a reasonable amount of time. Half a season might be reasonable, barely. 2 seasons or more is not.

mwillems
mwillems
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:02 pm
mwillems wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:59 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:21 pm


They are not mutually exclusive… Just as the win in Monza brought great PR to the Team and increase the value of their card, the constant questioning of his performance (or lack thereof) counteract that positive largely also… The first half of the season assessment of McLaren isn’t a positive one and that is in a big part because their second driver isn’t delivering and that has a negative impact financially.
It's easy to forget that Daniel finished 8th to Landos 6th and got a win last year, it's not been too bad until this year, but that is dealt with so I don't expect there to be much impact.

It's important to remember that the bickering in here is not known to the wider public, they will see the largely positive aspect of our upward trajectory, they will see the win and they will see Dan's face, who irrespective of results and some questions that they will probably still relate to and like and embrace, along with the Mclaren brand he is associated with. His exit is also associated with the brand though and this is where I suspect we will take the Danny Ric hit, how we treat Daniel in this period is really important for Mclaren going forward and if you think about it, Daniel's advisors probably know that. Financially he holds all of the cards.

Even that is simplifying it, but results aren't everything for the sponsorship.
Most definitely… The reason for the lack of any kind of announcement or statement so far is an indication that they are trying to manage the situation behind the scenes as well as possible… I also believe that McLaren has a very good PR / Marketing Team and will try to end the situation in a positive way for all involved.
Plus they do seem like a genuinely good bunch in the way they treat people and I think this is part of the current Mclaren brand, probably down to Zak's "affability" despite being a very strong businessman.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.