Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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saviour stivala wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:19 am
‘’Why the FERRARI COMPRESSOR intake cannot be seen in any pictures of the front of the engine so far’’ While still to this day there have been nothing official from FERRARI re the configuration of the turbo adopted, which means anything said/pushed out is just an opinion other than that of FERRARI officially. Those parts of the written press regarded as being nearest to FERRARI, Around six months before the introduction of the 2022 power unit were talking about FERRARI having the ambition to ‘’introduce the compressor inside the intake box with unprecedented configuration of the upper part of the 6cylinder engine’’. This was what lead me to change my mind that FERRARI had after all split their turbo with the 'h' in between, but the configuration set up chosen is much shorter than what is adopted by the other three, if this is the configuration adopted, there is no doubt that they have obtained an advantage in both weight and compactness.
Spunds crazy it could be a scroll type compressor...

Similar in behaviour to as screw compressor but the discharge is in the centre of the scroll...

I'm checking out the kinematics of it to see if the it meets the rules on the axis of rotation.. But it should.
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ringo
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Image

It is possible that what we think is the intercooler is not. It may be the compressor. The intercooler could be integrated into the black plenum above the engine.
Or small diameter compressor, with axial flow, that is integrated with the fancy radial intercooler at the end.
For Sure!!

noname
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ringo wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:01 am
It is possible that what we think is the intercooler is not. It may be the compressor. The intercooler could be integrated into the black plenum above the engine.
Or small diameter compressor, with axial flow, that is integrated with the fancy radial intercooler at the end.
Unlikely. Axial compressor has narrow range and offers low pressure ratio. Even if we ignore the range, you would need multi-stage design (big, complex and heavy compared with centrifugal one).
Inlet and outlet would be located at the front and back, not symmetrically on the sides.

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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And that apart that multi-stage compressor is not allowed.

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ringo
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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noname wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:23 am
ringo wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:01 am
It is possible that what we think is the intercooler is not. It may be the compressor. The intercooler could be integrated into the black plenum above the engine.
Or small diameter compressor, with axial flow, that is integrated with the fancy radial intercooler at the end.
Unlikely. Axial compressor has narrow range and offers low pressure ratio. Even if we ignore the range, you would need multi-stage design (big, complex and heavy compared with centrifugal one).
Inlet and outlet would be located at the front and back, not symmetrically on the sides.
In that case i suspect the compressor is that thing on the front with two outlets. The intercoolers are on top of the engine.
For Sure!!

Dr. Acula
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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noname wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:23 am
Unlikely. Axial compressor has narrow range and offers low pressure ratio. Even if we ignore the range, you would need multi-stage design (big, complex and heavy compared with centrifugal one).
Inlet and outlet would be located at the front and back, not symmetrically on the sides.
Also, the technical rules state it has to be a single stage compressor. So everything that can't reach the necessary boost pressure with a single stage is out of question.
5.2.6 Pressure charging may only be effected by the use of a sole single stage compressor with a
single Inlet linked to a sole single stage exhaust turbine by a shaft assembly parallel to the
engine crankshaft [...]

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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That superb picture by nicoles carpentier reproduced to on here, on here it is not totally reproduced as marked by him. The original, the round thing at the front with two outlet pipes is clearly marked by carpentier as an intercooler with on the left an inset in a circle showing what he call is the internal (inside it). Carpentier also marks the oil tank (reservoir d’huile) right under the horizontal run of the two outlet pipes that comes up from intercooler, in his original picture the MGU-K is also marked (right bottom side).

johnny comelately
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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subjects in this video:
the increased ethanol effect.
laser sintering of engine materials, which is a fascinating subject at the molecular level; in fact the development of new materials from chemical engineering will be one of the important areas in the future, and hopefully the FIA will move with the times in this regard (away from the iron age); they have done once with carbon fibre.
splitting the turbo advantages.
canting the TJI
and then chassis stuff :wink:

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vorticism
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Regardless of the compressor arrangement (my thoughts from March: viewtopic.php?p=1052290#p1052290 ), the intercooler is a puzzle. I assume this is what the cake tin / gugelhupf is. If so:

-it is much smaller than their previous rectangular intercooler
-there are mounting hole flanges on the front, those ears at 9 and 3 o'clock (for what?)
-the cover over the center almost looks like embossed foil similar to what you see on exhaust pipe covers, even has a weld line across it; if so why that and not CF?
-what purpose do the radial bulges on the front face serve? (runners for coolant?)

If the microtubes are smaller than before, this would provide some downsizing. IIRC intercooler design is free. Merc is running something similar this year, presumably a cylindrical or conical intercooler, as evident in photos. Was some tubing technology only becoming recently available which inspired this change?

I was thinking of that "Reaction Engines" approach, I even posted a while back that same press image Nicolas did. However, there are only ten spars on the front cover, if that is anything to go by. Ten runners each feeding a band of microtubes does not seem space efficient compared to what Ferrari previously had (box of 14k? tubes). Yet it is smaller. Something interesting must be going on inside this innocuous overly simple looking gugelhupf.


AR3-GP
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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From that image, I've had some time to think and i'm certain it's a split turbo. The air filter box (or whatever that box thing is), feeds down, then to the front into the intercooler by way of the compressor. This may also explain why Ferrari struggle with overheating of the compressor in Spain. It's hot inside the V?

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vorticism
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I'm still on the fence. If it's split it has a unique compressor outlet which feeds directly into the cylindrical IC. Otherwise it is still a more typical joined turbo as in previous seasons, with the compressor at the rear, and we simply can't see the charge/transfer pipes beneath the VIM plenums. When you look at the 2019-21 power unit everything looks the same except for the air filter(s) and intercooler.

vorticism wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:14 am
AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:37 am
What if the compressor is still at the back and they are just using an annulus duct concentric with the MGU-H shaft, to feed the intercooler as we see above? Turbofan jet engines have the same thing no? Rotating shaft in the center. Air flow in the outer annulus. Although surely the MGU-H itself is still in the way or must be very small? So maybe it's split after all. :wtf:
I like that idea combined with the backward front compressor I suggested the other day. This would avoid any MGUH interference. You'd end up with a radially compact outlet that could feed directly into the gugelhupf intercooler. Top view section:

Image
vorticism wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:31 pm
https://i.imgur.com/rzpiB1f.jpg

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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THE ‘’I.IMGUR.COM’’ illustration/drawing in your last part of your post is in my opinion the nearest to the turbo/H/intercooler configuration FERRARI is using, A split turbo with the ‘H’ in-between the turbine and compressor, with the compressor intake facing the ‘H’ and compressor outlet pumping air directly into a ‘tin-cake’ (Gugelhupf) type of intercooler, marked by Carpentier as a ‘reaction engine’ encircled in his engine photo.

Clubman1d
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I don't believe it's a special compressor.

The setup must be something like, turbine, mgu-h, compressor, intercooler.
The compressor has only one exit that comes out the top turns to the front of the car and into the intercooler.

Are they still allowed variable intake runners?

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ringo
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Clubman1d wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:43 pm
I don't believe it's a special compressor.

The setup must be something like, turbine, mgu-h, compressor, intercooler.
The compressor has only one exit that comes out the top turns to the front of the car and into the intercooler.

Are they still allowed variable intake runners?
Yes, based on what I have seen of the other engines.

I believe the compressor can be in the V. But why would it be so small?
I though the teams were moving away from small diameter compressors?
It seems ferrari has very good response and low down torque.. but could this be because of the comrpessor size?
But how do they benefit to get peak power without a compromise.
For Sure!!

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aleks_ader
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Because it isn't inside V. Its just inverted.
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna