Red Bull Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
wuzak
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Re: Red Bull Power Unit Hardware & Software

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At the current level of technology we are looking at power units with a total of around 1100bhp or 800Kw (split 450Kw/350Kw between engine and battery) which will suddenly be bereft of the battery’s 350kw contribution somewhere on the lap. It raises the prospect of hazardously big speed differentials as one car empties its charge for the lap and the other does not, but there are other implications too, as Verstappen elucidated after trying the ’26 PU on the simulator.
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... e-a-point/


I doubt that they will run at full power and run out of battery. Instead, they will use full power from the MGUK in short periods to minimise lap times, and use lower power elsewhere.

So basically the full power will be used out of corners, particularly slow corners, and then quickly reduced.

saviour stivala
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Re: Red Bull Power Unit Hardware & Software

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If the current simulations that fueled all these fears is published it will only contribute for some more fuel to the fire started, this as those simulations were declared by those that matter to have been based on the use of out-of-date data.

gruntguru
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Re: Red Bull Power Unit Hardware & Software

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wuzak wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2023 3:36 am
Cs98 wrote:
Mon Jul 10, 2023 11:58 am
saviour stivala wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2023 5:09 am
Pat Symonds - ''Driver and team concern about new 2026 rules not working are misplaced and based on out-of-date simulation data''. In my opinion in no way does it mean that the above driver and team are idiots.
Same guy who also admitted the regulations were designed for dual axle harvesting before the manufacturers scrapped that. He's basically in charge of creating an aerodynamic abomination to try and make up for the lack of power.

RB openly concerned. Mark Hughes reporting Ferrari and Honda are making noises behind the scenes. Merc head of engines talking about fuel burning being a necessity to run the MGU-K, Pat Symmonds admitting the regs were designed for dual axle harvesting. Yeah, these regulations are going to be great...
I think that the way to allay fears about the rules is to publish the current simulations to show what speed we can expect from a 2026 car.
Yes. This is something they could do more of.

The probability that Symonds and Co will implement changes that will produce a major detriment to the spectacle is quite low. They are not stupid.
je suis charlie

wuzak
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Re: Red Bull Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Interesting that Mark Hughes has put forward a number for ICE power of 450kW.

That would mean a thermal efficiency of 54%!

400kW = 48% efficiency.

wuzak
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Re: Red Bull Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Interesting that Mark Hughes has put forward a number for ICE power of 450kW.

That would mean a thermal efficiency of 54%!

400kW = 48% efficiency.

saviour stivala
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Re: Red Bull Power Unit Hardware & Software

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wuzak wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2023 3:40 am
At the current level of technology we are looking at power units with a total of around 1100bhp or 800Kw (split 450Kw/350Kw between engine and battery) which will suddenly be bereft of the battery’s 350kw contribution somewhere on the lap. It raises the prospect of hazardously big speed differentials as one car empties its charge for the lap and the other does not, but there are other implications too, as Verstappen elucidated after trying the ’26 PU on the simulator.
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... e-a-point/

Fore some reason known only to him Mark Hughes involved even those he only heard in his article but not what Pat Symonds said about the matter raised by RB.

I doubt that they will run at full power and run out of battery. Instead, they will use full power from the MGUK in short periods to minimise lap times, and use lower power elsewhere.

So basically the full power will be used out of corners, particularly slow corners, and then quickly reduced.

CaribouBread
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Re: Red Bull Power Unit Hardware & Software

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wuzak wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:30 am
Interesting that Mark Hughes has put forward a number for ICE power of 450kW.

That would mean a thermal efficiency of 54%!

400kW = 48% efficiency.
A part of me is really skeptical of that claim. But another part of me, that has gone through the speculation around the 2014 PU and read how people were really adamant that anything over 35% efficiency is a pipedream, doesn't want to assume anything too quickly. :lol: :lol: :P

wuzak
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Re: Red Bull Power Unit Hardware & Software

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saviour stivala wrote:
Mon Jul 10, 2023 5:41 pm
''Mercedes head of engines talking about 'fuel-burning' being a necessity to run the MGU-K (meaning to harvest electrical energy)". To me what Mercedes head of engines is saying proves two things. (1) At present no fuel burning is taking place to harvest, and (2) For 2026 rules are the same, As he believes/calculates that "fuel-burning to run MGU-K being a necessity". When that RBPT project leader engine engineer was talking to RET he known exactly what he was saying re-the rules and burning fuel to harvest.
I thought the Mercedes engineer was talking about charging the battery for a qualifying lap.

saviour stivala
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Re: Red Bull Power Unit Hardware & Software

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The Mercedes engineer (head of engines) was talking about there being the necessity of burning fuel to charge the ES for 2026 PU rules. If he believes there is the necessity to burn fuel to charge ES for the 2026 PU, it means the RB engine project leader engineer was correct when he said that burning fuel to charge ES is still a 'no go' in the 2026 rules. Furthermore, it must be clarified that this "burning fuel to harvest'' subject concerns only that harvesting by the 'K' (harvesting other than under braking) and not harvesting by the 'H' which is in use up to 2026, this is being said because any harvesting by the 'H' can only happen by burning fuel.

wuzak
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Re: Red Bull Power Unit Hardware & Software

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saviour stivala wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2023 6:20 am
If he believes there is the necessity to burn fuel to charge ES for the 2026 PU, it means the RB engine project leader engineer was correct when he said that burning fuel to charge ES is still a 'no go' in the 2026 rules.
If the Mercedes man says that it will be necessary to burn fuel in 2026 he is basically saying that is allowed under the 2026 rules.

Which is at odds with what the Red Bull engineer said a couple of years ago.

saviour stivala
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Re: Red Bull Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Saying that it will be necessary to burn fuel (to harvest) in 2026 can only be interpreted to mean the rules as are (at least up to now) allows such fuel burning by someone's caliber that visits other technical forums and is reminded that the turbo maximum rpm rules are 150k rpm and not as stated by him 15k rpm.

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ME4ME
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Re: Red Bull Power Unit Hardware & Software

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.. is there actually anyone aside from some executives that wants these power units :lol:

Was thinking over the Silverstone weekend. 480k people. There must've been less than 50 people actually excited about this and thinking it is a good idea.

wuzak
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Re: Red Bull Power Unit Hardware & Software

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saviour stivala wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2023 5:32 am
Saying that it will be necessary to burn fuel (to harvest) in 2026 can only be interpreted to mean the rules as are (at least up to now) allows such fuel burning by someone's caliber that visits other technical forums and is reminded that the turbo maximum rpm rules are 150k rpm and not as stated by him 15k rpm.
Well, the turbo speed is not actually limited, and the MGUH is restricted to 125,000 rpm.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Red Bull Power Unit Hardware & Software

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The unit hasn't seen the light of day so the topic should have speculation qualifier attached.
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saviour stivala
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Re: Red Bull Power Unit Hardware & Software

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wuzak wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:25 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2023 5:32 am
Saying that it will be necessary to burn fuel (to harvest) in 2026 can only be interpreted to mean the rules as are (at least up to now) allows such fuel burning by someone's caliber that visits other technical forums and is reminded that the turbo maximum rpm rules are 150k rpm and not as stated by him 15k rpm.
Well, the turbo speed is not actually limited, and the MGUH is restricted to 125,000 rpm.
Speculations? Yes all being said as to the projected for 2026 PU is speculation and or personal opinion that are not consonant with the projected rules as are up to this day, and that includes deployment/harvesting plus harvesting by burning fuel. And as at present, the turbo speed is actually limited to that of the MGU-H at 125k RPM and not 15k RPM as corrected on the other technical forum were the wisdom was also pushed out.