2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

https://preview.redd.it/miami-gp-quali- ... 3a21935853

Is it clear why the McLaren's gain so much in the early parts of the straight? It seems Red Bull have a drag advantage with DRS on at the end but we lose so much before.

I think it's a little bit of everything. RBR traction out of T16 and T17 is poor. Fresh Merc PU. Old Honda unit. Draggier wing. It all adds up.

[f1isgood]

I also think the technical team deserves some respect and credit. Since that Austin upgrade, the car has been good enough to be on pole at Qatar, Suzuka, Jeddah and Miami. Admittedly, these tracks also suited the RB20 but given McLaren were already better and we went 10 races without a Max pole in 2024, this is a strong step forward. At Jeddah, even the best race pace.

I will also admit that Max has been able to take much more risks and be on the limit in these poles. That is also a byproduct of improved driveability. We really struggled with that in 2024 after Miami McLaren upgrades. I really hope that the RB21 can handle itself better during the critical European leg as that will determine if (at all) we will be fighting for the title afterall. The RB20 was, for all practical purposes at best the second-third best this entire wing.

Tomorrow is also an interesting race if Max can lead into T1 because we can do a direct comparsion with McLaren since last year (adjsuting for tire compounds as well). The RB20 after Lando took the lead was this bad:



That last stint, Lando was 4 tenths a lap quicker.

Tomorrow will answer a lot of questions with regard to relative progress.

I think Imola, Monaco will be tough. Spain maybe we can fight like Miami. Austria will be tough (rear limited), Canada is a question mark, Silverstone ?, Spa should be okay?, Hungary, Zandvoort will be really bad, Monza ?, Baku (Max's just not that good here) -- this leg especially the clear tough ones will make all the difference.

[f1isgood]

And the team pit crew needs a lot of work. Clearly Wheatley was a very important part of the RB machine. More than Newey IMO (unpopular with some for sure) we will miss Jonathan more but I am not sure what Red Bull could have done to have him promoted given a power struggle. He decided to go as a Team Principal and he frankly deserves that much. Sir GOATLEY you are being missed.

[langedweil]

What else to say? VERGOD as someone else said it.

When those syllables are switched it sounds a lot more dutch ..

[AR3-GP]

1) Still livid about the sprint. These points matter. It's clear now that they will never have a comfortable performance advantage over the Mclaren to where losing points in that sprint won't matter at the end of the year. It's going to matter.

2) If Lawson didn't cause a collision in the sprint, Max would have scored points...Why does this junior team always ruin everything? It's not the first time.

3) I don't think Max will lead after T1. This car has no traction. He will not get off the line better than Mclarens.

[Bill]

Stella said the McLaren should've locked out the front row. We shouldn't get delusions that the red bull is fastest now even at Miami. We're still reliant on further upgrades and Barcelona

But there's silver linings too. I'm fairly sure they still ran the old engine which would be a noticeable deficit on a track like this.

When Mercedes had their old engines in Jeddah, they were not dropping all this laptime on the straights. So does that mean Honda has huge degradation?

I think there's something more going on. Why would Honda request to use the old engine here when Imola and Monaco are the next rounds?

The Honda pu 2021 loses about 7hp over the corse of its life thats why they didnt do a spicy pu like Mercedes when they were fighting hard for that champ so unless the are cutting corners a new pu does not make that difference.these narrative is bs max put it on pole so engine talk is was deflection in case upgrades dont work.

[kurtj]

Johnathan Wheatley leaves and the pitstops go to ****. Newey leaves and the aero goes to ****.

Any comment Christian?

The guy whose job is to look for an incoming car, forgot to pay attention and do his job and Christian has to answer that? The pitstop itself went fine. It's a basic human error. Of course Christian can fire that guy, but is that what is necessary?

Pitstops have been slow and error strewn all year. This is not an isolated incident. There is a fundamental breakdown of the culture that brings success.

If there is one thing people should have learnt by now, it is that this is not a aero dependent regulations set. McLarens have developed a strong mechanical platform and that is paying off handsomely, which has been the key to a winning car in this regulation set. Red Bull got it fine in the first year, not sure if that was Newey or Rob Marshal that was responsible for having a great mechanical platform out of the box, but since last year, they have been out developed by McLaren. One can guess who they are missing the most. But that was always going to be the case for any dominant team, that eventually people hit growth sealing and other teams pouch them.

Nope, not having it. Horner had one last chance to try and paper over the obvious cracks and drag this team to a 5th WDC but it’s not happening and they’re finished with that PU for next year. Anyone thinking that will be anything other than Renault 2017 is delusional.

It's fair that you disagree. It's not like Newey's cars have won every year. He has had more failed cars (WDC) than the winning one, statistically. Competition wouldn't be standing still and the very reason why Max still gets pole or a win is the car is giving him that opportunity. He isn't driving a Sauber. For the past few years, he has been lucky to be sitting in dominant cars that has spoiled the expectations.

Even in Wheatley's time, pit stop blunder have happened. The Ferrari mentality of fire everyone isn't going to help anyone. Who would be the next team principal? Jos Verstappen?

[Chuckjr]

Max is a racing god. Screws the corner and still takes pole. Dang impressive. A lot riding on the start tomorrow. If it's wet, even the Macca start isn't guaranteed.

[Sergej]

Interesting that they made the car "turn better", but I hope it's not at the cost of worse rear tyre deg.

[Sergej]

Things that shouldn't happen

Max - 3 Poles
Piastri - 2 Poles
Norris - 1 Pole

[Wouter]

What else to say? VERGOD as someone else said it.

.
When those syllables are switched it sounds a lot more dutch ..

.
Indeed, but you will get a penalty/huge fine for that!

[Cs98]

But there's silver linings too. I'm fairly sure they still ran the old engine which would be a noticeable deficit on a track like this.

When Mercedes had their old engines in Jeddah, they were not dropping all this laptime on the straights. So does that mean Honda has huge degradation?

I think there's something more going on. Why would Honda request to use the old engine here when Imola and Monaco are the next rounds?

The Honda pu 2021 loses about 7hp over the corse of its life thats why they didnt do a spicy pu like Mercedes when they were fighting hard for that champ so unless the are cutting corners a new pu does not make that difference.these narrative is bs max put it on pole so engine talk is was deflection in case upgrades dont work.

We are not in 2021 anymore, everyone is pushing their 2022 base package to the limit. There’s a reason Honda chooses “power tracks” like Saudi, Spa and Monza to run fresh engines. There’s a reason they “sandbag” in FP, there’s a reason they avoided running the fresh engine on a sprint. It all points to wear that affect performance.

[Sergej]

Well Miami is a power track too, so it's a bit strange to do engine save here, especially when you have two tracks coming where you can do that.

Anyway let's see how it goes, maybe Lando divebombs in T1 and all this conv about the engine becomes pointless.

[venkyhere]

I HOPE THEY DONT CHANGE ANYTHING ON THE CAR FOR THE REST OF THE WEEKEND, it's capable of pole.

Guess what, they did change the car (i guess more front flap) but didn't lose anything in sector1. Max was steadily gaining one/one-n-half tenth in sector1 with every single quali lap he did. I found that amazing, even on the final Q3 lap with the mistake in turn1.
Howevever, what shocked me most was nearly ~0.3 that he found in sector2 (still 0.1 slower than mclarens) only in final Q3 run, thanks to the front flap adjust, perhaps.
Before Max haters pounce on this post, let me say : yes, the car was capable, but it takes a special driver to exrtract nearly 100% from the theoreical limit from a car, and such 'jaw dropper' pole laps from max in 2025 are not a surprise anymore. Out of 6 weekends so far Max has 3 poles, with a clearly inferior car than the mclaren.
It's sad that for this race, it will be impossible to defend in the straights due to lack of acceleration from some engine gremlin (i am not ready to believe its drag related, since vmax at end of straights isn't far off) .

[marcel171281]

I HOPE THEY DONT CHANGE ANYTHING ON THE CAR FOR THE REST OF THE WEEKEND, it's capable of pole.

Guess what, they did change the car (i guess more front flap) but didn't lose anything in sector1. Max was steadily gaining one/one-n-half tenth in sector1 with every single quali lap he did. I found that amazing, even on the final Q3 lap with the mistake in turn1.
Howevever, what shocked me most was nearly ~0.3 that he found in sector2 (still 0.1 slower than mclarens) only in final Q3 run, thanks to the front flap adjust, perhaps.
Before Max haters pounce on this post, let me say : yes, the car was capable, but it takes a special driver to exrtract nearly 100% from the theoreical limit from a car, and such 'jaw dropper' pole laps from max in 2025 are not a surprise anymore. Out of 6 weekends so far Max has 3 poles, with a clearly inferior car than the mclaren.
It's sad that for this race, it will be impossible to defend in the straights due to lack of acceleration from some engine gremlin (i am not ready to believe its drag related, since vmax at end of straights isn't far off) .

The front flap is literally set different every single time the car goes on track. Every tyre compound needs a setting adjustment and also track evolutions demands an adjustment. If a team says they changed the setup, they mean other things then the front wing.