2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Matt2725]

That would have to mean they already used the drum cooling system in a race. Can't test unraced parts on the car

I did wonder.
Do the parts have to actually compete in a race or if a part is tested in a practise session can it then be tested on an old car?

Indeed. Maybe they're testing the new brake cooling on the W11 and doing comparisons with the W16.

Sure, different tyres and rims etc but would be a worthwhile test. That being said, I am unsure of how much you can add new bits to old cars in that sense. I'd imagine the FIA would be all over that straight away.

2021 and 2022 say hello: Toto was all over the media about the supposed increase in HP of the 2nd Honda PU, publically threatening to take the FIA to International court of appeal about Red Bulls bending rear wing and pressured the FIA to stop Red Bulls fast pitstops. In 2022 he didn't want to change his cars rear suspension to stop it from porpoising and bounching but change the regulations. All these things he played very much via the media

IIRC the 2nd Honda PU in 2021 had a revised turbocharger, which was brought under the guise of reliability. That also came with a noticeable boost in performance, which is where the accusations arose from. From what I recall, there was speculation that Honda and RBR deliberately ran the first PU too hard to force the idea that a reliability change was needed. Indeed Max had warning messages on his dash regarding the PU quite famously in Bahrain.
So in that sense, the accusation appears to be they made a performance upgrade under the freeze, but used reliability as a means to get it sanctioned.

[Mansell89]

Where do people anticipate the “visual” changes to be this weekend when we see the new updates?

Be great if Merc can make a leap here as it could make for some great racing across the rest of the season.

[Tonino]

Where do people anticipate the “visual” changes to be this weekend when we see the new updates?

Be great if Merc can make a leap here as it could make for some great racing across the rest of the season.

[SB15]

Well the one question remains to be answered: Has Mercedes finally found their silver bullet?


After 3-4 years of brain drain, 3-4 of correlation issues, 3-4 of failed expectations, 3-4 of struggling with these new regulations, did Merc finally overcome all their demons and develop a car (W16) as a competitive threat like the days of old?

We’ll have to wait and see.

[Cs98]

If Merc thinks that McLaren is out of reach anyway but their own developments on the rear tyre cooling could very well be better than Red Bulls then sure you back McLaren to keep what they have and make sure you can introduce your own version asap and jump Red Bull as 2nd fastest car. TPs job to think like that and there's nothing wrong with that. Its up to the FIA what goes and what doesn't

There's a reason Toto is so different now compared to the militant political operator we saw only a few years ago, who seemingly could leverage targeted TDs out of thin air. First, as you allude to, he understands that he can't win in this regulation cycle anymore. They've essentially given up on 2025. Secondly, given that Merc can't win, he prefers that McLaren win because they have his engines, so it's the second best option for the Merc brand. There's just no strong incentive to lobby against McLaren right now.

For everyone: Yes I indeed know what Toto has done from 2013-2022. But at least it wasn’t as bad like Redbull trying everything in their power through those 7-8 years to limit Mercs advantage and now the last 2 years with McLaren.

That's your opinion, likely tinged by your fandom. Ask fans of RB or Ferrari about Toto's prior TD escapades and they will give you a very different answer about how "bad" it was. People have very selective memories on this stuff.

[McLarenHonda]

There's a reason Toto is so different now compared to the militant political operator we saw only a few years ago, who seemingly could leverage targeted TDs out of thin air. First, as you allude to, he understands that he can't win in this regulation cycle anymore. They've essentially given up on 2025. Secondly, given that Merc can't win, he prefers that McLaren win because they have his engines, so it's the second best option for the Merc brand. There's just no strong incentive to lobby against McLaren right now.

For everyone: Yes I indeed know what Toto has done from 2013-2022. But at least it wasn’t as bad like Redbull trying everything in their power through those 7-8 years to limit Mercs advantage and now the last 2 years with McLaren.

That's your opinion, likely tinged by your fandom. Ask fans of RB or Ferrari about Toto's prior TD escapades and they will give you a very different answer about how "bad" it was. People have very selective memories on this stuff.

Marko and Horner are by far the most toxic duo in the f1 paddock! This is what makes both Red Bull and its drivers a toxic team…

They’ve been lobbying like idiots at every single irrelevant off track stuff just to stay close to McLaren! Something like trying to get Russell get a penalty for a yellow flag in Miami…not to mention all this fuss about flexi wings!

Just make a better car instead of crying all the time! After all it’s exactly what Horner was saying to Toto back in 2022…

[SB15]

There's a reason Toto is so different now compared to the militant political operator we saw only a few years ago, who seemingly could leverage targeted TDs out of thin air. First, as you allude to, he understands that he can't win in this regulation cycle anymore. They've essentially given up on 2025. Secondly, given that Merc can't win, he prefers that McLaren win because they have his engines, so it's the second best option for the Merc brand. There's just no strong incentive to lobby against McLaren right now.

For everyone: Yes I indeed know what Toto has done from 2013-2022. But at least it wasn’t as bad like Redbull trying everything in their power through those 7-8 years to limit Mercs advantage and now the last 2 years with McLaren.

That's your opinion, likely tinged by your fandom. Ask fans of RB or Ferrari about Toto's prior TD escapades and they will give you a very different answer about how "bad" it was. People have very selective memories on this stuff.

I think you have selective bias. "Fandom" or not, it's the absolute truth that many F1 fans would agree with, Redbull by far is the team that brings out most of the drama or most of the complaining for no reason. Funny how Christian can't follow the same advice he gave Toto back in 2022 "You got a problem, change your f***ing car"

[Quantum]

I think you have selective bias. "Fandom" or not, it's the absolute truth that many F1 fans would agree with, Redbull by far is the team that brings out most of the drama or most of the complaining for no reason. Funny how Christian can't follow the same advice he gave Toto back in 2022 "You got a problem, change your f***ing car"

Spot on.

[Cs98]

For everyone: Yes I indeed know what Toto has done from 2013-2022. But at least it wasn’t as bad like Redbull trying everything in their power through those 7-8 years to limit Mercs advantage and now the last 2 years with McLaren.

That's your opinion, likely tinged by your fandom. Ask fans of RB or Ferrari about Toto's prior TD escapades and they will give you a very different answer about how "bad" it was. People have very selective memories on this stuff.

I think you have selective bias. "Fandom" or not, it's the absolute truth that many F1 fans would agree with, Redbull by far is the team that brings out most of the drama or most of the complaining for no reason. Funny how Christian can't follow the same advice he gave Toto back in 2022 "You got a problem, change your f***ing car"

We are all biased, but at least I'm not framing my own opinions as "absolute truths" Maybe you are just on a different level compared to us mere mortals.

F1 teams pursue their interests politically and technically. Whilst the political game plays out in public, in the background the team is usually busy "changing their F-in car". https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mcla ... very-plan/

Btw, did Toto follow Horner's advice or did he pursue his own political agenda and successfully change the rules? That's a rhetorical question.

[SB15]

That's your opinion, likely tinged by your fandom. Ask fans of RB or Ferrari about Toto's prior TD escapades and they will give you a very different answer about how "bad" it was. People have very selective memories on this stuff.

I think you have selective bias. "Fandom" or not, it's the absolute truth that many F1 fans would agree with, Redbull by far is the team that brings out most of the drama or most of the complaining for no reason. Funny how Christian can't follow the same advice he gave Toto back in 2022 "You got a problem, change your f***ing car"

We are all biased, but at least I'm not framing my own opinions as "absolute truths" Maybe you are just on a different level compared to us mere mortals.

F1 teams pursue their interests politically and technically. Whilst the political game plays out in public, in the background the team is usually busy "changing their F-in car". https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mcla ... very-plan/

Btw, did Toto follow Horner's advice or did he pursue his own political agenda and successfully change the rules? That's a rhetorical question.

Uhh…. I can’t recall hearing anything controversial with Toto since maybe 2022 with the TD rules that backfired on Mercedes, but you never seen Mercedes protesting to the FIA every now and then after it was enforced.

You basically said a whole lot of nothing and not address the obvious elephant in the room when it comes to Redbull Racing. But I applaud the effort, good try though.

[Quantum]

Frequencies. Differences. Severities. Accusations. Acrimony.

They're not the same. Not even close. The attempts at trying to paint 2022 as an equivalent to what Horner has been doing the last 12 months or so is bewildering....what was it again..."Just fix your F~~ing car"....
Clearly. Famously. Does. Not. Follow. Own. Advice. That comment sits around Horners neck like a Mamba. And so long as he is in F1, which might be for not much longer.

Firstly, the FIA themselves admitted that porpoising was an "unforseen" issue for ALL teams.
Perez had headaches in Canada from it...that being a Red Bull driver
Did you get a performative advantage running close to the ground? Yes.
So Toto coming out to try push for a TD that is clearly an issue for all teams (in variation) is not the same as Horner coming out accusing other teams of cheating with flexing wings, water in the tyres etc etc.
I know, I know.... the assumptive "you just think Toto can do no wrong" etc.... Well he can, and has and did!

There's an inferno going on at Milton Keynes right now, with the dismantling of a crazy good team(Newey, Marshall, Wheatley, the engine cover mechanic who *knows everything about design process and braking systems and is now a podcaster/author) helmed by a chap who does more than just run his mouth and accuse his opponents of cheating.
PA cough PA.
I can see why some would want to drag Toto into some comparative performative art false equivalence.

It deflects the reality.

[OverheatedTurbo]

New front wing..
https://x.com/mercedesamgtr/status/1923 ... 19271?s=46

[CjC]

New front wing..
https://x.com/mercedesamgtr/status/1923 ... 19271?s=46

Interesting considering Spain is a few rounds away….

[Lasssept]

old ?



Japan

[OverheatedTurbo]

Rear suspension fairing was removed. See : https://x.com/mercedesamgpcf1/status/19 ... 56799?s=46