2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

This is purely speculative, but if they changed the rear brake duct internals then it may not have worked as intended and instead just overheated the rear tires. Russells rear tires were melted after 5 or 6 laps. You could see the dark black bands on the surface of the tire in the rear facing camera.

[ringo]

It's soo ironic that the Zero-pod was being looked at from a lot of teams and now for the next set of regulations.

Lewis's assumption about "Advantage locked in for years" maybe isn't as far fetched as previously believed, it may seem that the effects of Hamilton's feedback may of came back to bite Mercedes in the now future, they should've stubbornly stuck with the initial W14 design and focus on the other areas like the front wing, rear wing, and floor, and also pushing the driver position further rearwards. But the most important area they should've focused on is the suspension geometry which worked extremely well but they're limited with rear tyres overheating currently. They would've had a massive advantage in terms of tyres if the zero-pod concept was still around.

Now, Mercedes are having trouble with the current sidepod/aero concept that doesn't work well with the suspension geometry or how the car operates/drives and that's a tough pill to swallow. Mercedes can get back on track if they focus on the reworking the aero wake but as @Space-Heat said, it'll take 8-10 weeks or longer.

Merc has unfortunately failed in these sets of regulations.

Mercedes did stubbornly stick to their concept while telling hamilton to shut up and that he didnt know what he was talking about, with Toto later admitting they were wrong and sticking with the zero pod concept was their biggest mistake after testing in 2024, you can watch it all on netflix. Allison also said last year he doesnt think the zeropods concept will ever return.

That's what they said in 2023/2024. However this year seems to be an entirely different story. They never had this type of problems with the rears overheating until they switch the concept. Remember the W14 in Monaco 2023, their tyre degradation was almost cut in half once they introduced the down washing sidepods. And that is a very important fact that many of us need to remember.

We as fans thought the floor will solve the issues, then it was the sidepods would solve the issue, next it was the suspension will solve the issues, now it's brake cooling will solve the issues. But it seems to be a fatal flaw in how they design their aero particularly, the side-pods and Venturi tunnel exits.

Merc will be very glad to never these regulations ever again.

I think the venturi tunnels are the culprit.
RB21 now has Mercedes sidepods.
The media give McLaren the credit, but that rb upgrade is akin to the mercedes.
The rb21 had improved its tyre management. So this points to the floor, brake ducts, and possibly the wings. Very broad I know. But the sidepods seem to be for fine tuning more than big impact like wings ans floors.

I knew the mercedes pace was going to be short lived. It was only a matter of when they will hit the wall. And when they hit the wall, they reveal fundamental problems. Nothing has changed with the team, and that's why Lewis' move was better in the medium and long term.
If mercedes arent careful Ferrari and Williams will surpass them.

This w16 car has quite good balance though. Not as poor in the corners as w15. So it's a mystery what is the issue fundamentally.
May well be floor, wings and brake aero.

[Matt2725]

One poor race and all of a sudden the writing is on the wall and it's the end of the world as we know it.

One could be forgiven for thinking there are a few posters on here willing and cheering on the idea of them being pegged back or similar, rather than actually having any solid evidence to support that idea. Speculation is fun but I would rather wait until we have a definitive idea.

In terms of a "proper" circuit, it's likely their next more favourable track is Montreal based on the characteristics of the car. If it all falls apart there as well, then I will gladly concede something has happened to them or they've screwed the pooch themselves as it were. But until that moment, I think it's premature to be declaring that it's all gone wrong and they're now the 5th fastest team behind Williams and Ferrari all of a sudden.

[ringo]

Well most of us are reading quotes from the Simone Resta and George.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/geor ... 0724195/

I did not realize there were bumps in the development road, as yes they have been doing quite well so far with podiums and car looks good over a lap and first stint.

[SB15]

Well most of us are reading quotes from the Simone Resta and George.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/geor ... 0724195/

I did not realize there were bumps in the development road, as yes they have been doing quite well so far with podiums and car looks good over a lap and first stint.

Seems like Mercedes brought a stiffer rear wing, so just add to their problems. Looks like Max looks prepped to win his 5th world title, because I know Mclaren will be hard like Mercedes at Spain.

[AR3-GP]

AMUS typically writes some of the better articles covering Mercedes. I don't see anything from them for Imola. odd.

[AR3-GP]

[SB15]

https://i.postimg.cc/k4fz9kgg/image.png

Jesus I didn't think it was that bad. That's outrageously bad, I never seen the rears open up that bad on any car.

[Waz]

New flexi floor TD most likely the reason for Mercedes drop off in pace. All the issues they were having can be explained riding higher than optimum.

Resta bringing over Ferrari secrets?

[Quantum]

Hot race, weak rear. 2024 demons rearing their heads.

New floor for Spain could help but at this point, it's either McLaren or Red Bull winning the title and Merc should be focussing on shifting away from these ponderous tanks and throwing more into 2026.

[justmoi]

ONE THING though. And I think people have missed this. Merc, George all of them said after practice that their race pace was GOOD. That is shocking when you think about it considering how bad it was in the race. That right there shows seemingly a team that doesn't know what it's doing and is just confused. They knew and said repeatedly that they had to address their race pace. They bring updates (some) to fix this. Run it in practice (no rain no sprint) and declare that the race pace is good and they're looking forward to the race. And then have THAT race? Literally worst of the season. Like it was terrible. Tires near splitting.

What were they seeing? What are the looking at? It''s like a team chasing its own shadow. Like zero pods they've built a car with great theoretical pace but not usable pace. The baseline is strong but in this set of regulations that's just the beginning of the story. Other teams even those late to the party have figured it out. What's wrong with Merc? Are they really gonna be passed by Williams now? It's been one clown show after the other. For 4 years! Wow

And they've performed rather well in hot races this year. This over simplification is just immature and I doubt even they themselves believe otherwise they're even more confused than I thought. AND anyone noticed that even in the beginning of the season when they were doing well their some of their no shows compared to Mcl and RB has been in the COOLER rain! They're a complete non factor when it's wet. Watch first race of the season Australia again. Like this car has literally one window only. Whatever that is. Whatever that window is, whenever it's performed well, never looked like winning a race sadly.

Clown show

[HungarianRacer]

ONE THING though. And I think people have missed this. Merc, George all of them said after practice that their race pace was GOOD. That is shocking when you think about it considering how bad it was in the race. That right there shows seemingly a team that doesn't know what it's doing and is just confused. They knew and said repeatedly that they had to address their race pace. They bring updates (some) to fix this. Run it in practice (no rain no sprint) and declare that the race pace is good and they're looking forward to the race. And then have THAT race? Literally worst of the season. Like it was terrible. Tires near splitting.

What were they seeing? What are the looking at? It''s like a team chasing its own shadow. Like zero pods they've built a car with great theoretical pace but not usable pace. The baseline is strong but in this set of regulations that's just the beginning of the story. Other teams even those late to the party have figured it out. What's wrong with Merc? Are they really gonna be passed by Williams now? It's been one clown show after the other. For 4 years! Wow

And they've performed rather well in hot races this year. This over simplification is just immature and I doubt even they themselves believe otherwise they're even more confused than I thought. AND anyone noticed that even in the beginning of the season when they were doing well their some of their no shows compared to Mcl and RB has been in the COOLER rain! They're a complete non factor when it's wet. Watch first race of the season Australia again. Like this car has literally one window only. Whatever that is. Whatever that window is, whenever it's performed well, never looked like winning a race sadly.

Clown show

Very important observations. Couldn't have put it better myself, well done.

[SB15]

ONE THING though. And I think people have missed this. Merc, George all of them said after practice that their race pace was GOOD. That is shocking when you think about it considering how bad it was in the race. That right there shows seemingly a team that doesn't know what it's doing and is just confused. They knew and said repeatedly that they had to address their race pace. They bring updates (some) to fix this. Run it in practice (no rain no sprint) and declare that the race pace is good and they're looking forward to the race. And then have THAT race? Literally worst of the season. Like it was terrible. Tires near splitting.

What were they seeing? What are the looking at? It''s like a team chasing its own shadow. Like zero pods they've built a car with great theoretical pace but not usable pace. The baseline is strong but in this set of regulations that's just the beginning of the story. Other teams even those late to the party have figured it out. What's wrong with Merc? Are they really gonna be passed by Williams now? It's been one clown show after the other. For 4 years! Wow

And they've performed rather well in hot races this year. This over simplification is just immature and I doubt even they themselves believe otherwise they're even more confused than I thought. AND anyone noticed that even in the beginning of the season when they were doing well their some of their no shows compared to Mcl and RB has been in the COOLER rain! They're a complete non factor when it's wet. Watch first race of the season Australia again. Like this car has literally one window only. Whatever that is. Whatever that window is, whenever it's performed well, never looked like winning a race sadly.

Clown show

So, it looks like the car was heavily impacted by flexible parts because of multiple TD that addresses that as well as with the addition of a supposed Tyre wear TD.

Well TD’s or not, it doesn’t matter because it shows a fatal flaw with the cars overall aero package. And the W15’s problems which I believe wasn’t really major problems because this team stubbornly doesn’t look at its aero design.

And you know what doesn’t help? Although while improving on race pace, George’s dependency of leaning more towards outright Qualifying pace doesn’t help the situation either.

I know Kimi is still a rookie, but his biggest strength has always been his race pace. If I were Toto, they need to focus on race simulations for now on. Even if you don’t qualify well, points are awarded on a Sunday where it really matters.

[organic]

This is purely speculative, but if they changed the rear brake duct internals then it may not have worked as intended and instead just overheated the rear tires. Russells rear tires were melted after 5 or 6 laps. You could see the dark black bands on the surface of the tire in the rear facing camera.

Merc used their C5s in quali which takes a lot of life out.. 5+ laps worth on such soft compounds I would guess. And they already have a tyre wear problem in some conditions (see Saudi). Using that C5 tyre in quali also distorted their actual pace; I would say in quali they were not the 3rd fastest car. Using the medium in quali allowed them to overachieve on Saturday and directly penalised them on Sunday which made it quite a stunning and noticeable drop-off, and hence a point of discussion. On the hard tyre Russell's degradation was ok

For me it's probably a combination of factors. They introduced stiffer wings (both front and rear proven by Vanja) which cost them absolute laptime, they had a raft of upgrades which reset their understanding of their car somewhat, and their quali strategy amplified their tyre struggles

[AR3-GP]

This is purely speculative, but if they changed the rear brake duct internals then it may not have worked as intended and instead just overheated the rear tires. Russells rear tires were melted after 5 or 6 laps. You could see the dark black bands on the surface of the tire in the rear facing camera.

Merc used their C5s in quali which takes a lot of life out.. 5+ laps worth on such soft compounds I would guess. And they already have a tyre wear problem in some conditions (see Saudi). Using that C5 tyre in quali also distorted their actual pace; I would say in quali they were not the 3rd fastest car. Using the medium in quali allowed them to overachieve on Saturday and directly penalised them on Sunday which made it quite a stunning and noticeable drop-off, and hence a point of discussion. On the hard tyre Russell's degradation was ok

For me it's probably a combination of factors. They introduced stiffer wings (both front and rear proven by Vanja) which cost them absolute laptime, they had a raft of upgrades which reset their understanding of their car somewhat, and their quali strategy amplified their tyre struggles

George was complaining during the recce laps before the grid about a strange feeling at the back of the car. Mechanics checked it on the grid and could find no mechanical issue. I think what he was feeling even since the recce lap was that the rear tire thread was so hot that the thread was moving on the straights. Hard tire has higher operating temp. They use alternate sets of tires ( used M/S) on the recce laps. Sunday was the warmest day of the week and with the high fuel load. Mercedes insisted that there were updates to improve race pace and some which would not be visible.

Something just seems off, and Amus not covering it thus far is even more strange. Smacks of Mercedes hiding the real reasons for their rear tire issues in Imola. Could be anything from TDs to updates in the rear suspension and wheel bodywork not working as expected.