I can't cite where I saw it, but I do remember a program that compared the two McLaren drivers that found that LH was exhorting 1.5 times JB's peak pressure on the break pedal.SiLo wrote:Back on topic, why is he so good on the brakes? I feel this also helps him when peforming overtakes.
Yes he has a natural feel on brakes but alot of the stuff he does is text book stuff.SiLo wrote:Back on topic, why is he so good on the brakes? I feel this also helps him when peforming overtakes.
I disagree, take the early part of 2009, the mp4-24 was a horrible car until it got updated, Aus is the best example I can remember,(yes he got DQ, but that is not relevant to the topic.) His car was certainly no more competitive than anyone behind RBR and BrawnGP, and yet he pulled off some brilliant moves to make it up to 3rd place.bhallg2k wrote:Well, that would certainly explain why Hamilton is very prone to locking up a front wheel under braking and why Button can make a set of tires last much longer.
I think Hamilton is "so good" at overtaking because, relative to nearly every driver, he's always in a very competitive car and he's susceptible to making a lot of mistakes which necessitate overtaking. I think he'd be a much more successful driver if we were still left wondering about his overtaking abilities (like Vettel).
I've been thinking about this and I think you're wrong. What I think you mean is "you can't get more than 100% grip out of the tyres". Your thing about the car makes a, what I believe to be fundamentally flawed, assumption. That assumption is that the car is capable of using all of the grip that the tyres could deliver if they were all used to their maximum. I doubt any car does that because no car is perfect in all situations. Thus the driver can adjust the car to help it use more of the total grip available by dynamically adjusting the balance in the corners. This is what is meant by "out driving" the car.flynfrog wrote:You cant get more than 100% of a car
not to nitpick but you still cant get more than 100% out of a car. it would be like getting 3 pieces of toast out of your toaster when you only put in 2. Now I could fine tune my toaster to optimally toast both pieces as quickly as possible but I'm never going to get extra toast. I do agree with the last half of your post that some drivers are better at getting the most out of the car than others. Shu was known for this. I challenge you to prove it with data. To answer the question as to why he is so good at overtaking he almost always has a faster car then the guy he is passing and hes willing to make a move for better or worse. As some one pointed out earlier most of his moves are text book moves nothing that spectacular though I do enjoy watching him fight it out.Just_a_fan wrote:I've been thinking about this and I think you're wrong. What I think you mean is "you can't get more than 100% grip out of the tyres". Your thing about the car makes a, what I believe to be fundamentally flawed, assumption. That assumption is that the car is capable of using all of the grip that the tyres could deliver if they were all used to their maximum. I doubt any car does that because no car is perfect in all situations. Thus the driver can adjust the car to help it use more of the total grip available by dynamically adjusting the balance in the corners. This is what is meant by "out driving" the car.flynfrog wrote:You cant get more than 100% of a car
Some drivers are better at this than others. Some are only fully able to minimise their lap times when the car is 100% to their liking. Others are more adaptable and thus can make the car behave in a way that gets better lap times than it would in the other drivers' hands.
The McLaren drivers are a great example of this: sometimes Button and Hamilton are very close in lap times and Button will get out saying "car's perfect". Other times Button will be slower by several tenths and will get out and say "not happy with the car". Hamilton just gets out and says "car's great but we need more pace" no matter what the lap times. When he's happy, Button is as quick as Hamilton. When he's not, he's much slower. The cars and tyres are the same so the driver is making the difference and he can only make a difference to the car - the tyres are a constant.
not to turn this thread into a nitpick of terminology but if you go over your assumed asymptotic line then your initial assumptions were wrong.raymondu999 wrote:I think what people are saying is, there is an asymptotic limit to how fast Car A can be driven by Driver B over a single lap, where 100% is the asymptote.
Then I think we agree with each other.raymondu999 wrote:What I'm saying is that it is absolutely impossible to pass that asymptotic line. That asymptotic line is when the driver has had the absolute perfect lap. Be it sliding the rear, or whatever, he has done the fastest absolute lap his car can do.
I don't think you can just brush away his obvious skills as "text book stuff." no way they are textbook. Hamilton overtakes where you least expect it.HampusA wrote:Yes he has a natural feel on brakes but alot of the stuff he does is text book stuff.SiLo wrote:Back on topic, why is he so good on the brakes? I feel this also helps him when peforming overtakes.
That´s why it rarley works on seasoned driver´s like Schumacher and Alonso etc.
Basically the trick when approaching someone from behind you completely disregard your braking spot where you normally would brake.
Instead you watch the guy infront and as soon as he hit´s the brakes, you hit the brakes.
It´s a really simple and effective move because you sort of claim the track as you do it.
You have to be careful though not to overshoot the corner as the guy on the outside might pull one on you by braking extra late, causing you to miss the apex, he can cut in on the inside and regain position.
Many of the things Hamilton does is not special, it´s more text-book stuff.
the funny thing is that he seems to mostly be the only one really executing all of his arsenal.
KERS vs no-KERS?
Listen to LH's commentary – he used KERS twice in that move. What n_smikle is trying to point out is that 90% of drivers would have thought "hey, I'm closer than I've ever been here, lets dive up the inside", Hamilton thinks "I'm not close enough, lets try to set up an overtake in a spot that's not traditional."timbo wrote:KERS vs no-KERS?
But a car is not a discrete machine. It's fully variable unlike a toaster... You won't put in 2 slices of bread and take out 1 1/2 slices can you? lol (unless a rat or roach was in there! hehe.. Webber's got rats and roaches in his car?flynfrog wrote:not to nitpick but you still cant get more than 100% out of a car. it would be like getting 3 pieces of toast out of your toaster when you only put in 2. Now I could fine tune my toaster to optimally toast both pieces as quickly as possible but I'm never going to get extra toast. I do agree with the last half of your post that some drivers are better at getting the most out of the car than others. Shu was known for this. I challenge you to prove it with data. To answer the question as to why he is so good at overtaking he almost always has a faster car then the guy he is passing and hes willing to make a move for better or worse. As some one pointed out earlier most of his moves are text book moves nothing that spectacular though I do enjoy watching him fight it out.
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