Mercedes AMG F1 W03

[Crucial_Xtreme]

I think he's talking about a little innovation called the f-duct. I'm sure you can find it on the goggle.

If we are talking about the mythical Mercedes front wing duct there is no evidence that it ever existed. All you have is a nose hole that had always been there, absolutely nothing else.

Brian

You have pictures of the FW with mysterious slits in them as well as many small areas covered up. Just because we have no evidence with the system blue prints, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[hardingfv32]

Merc's Fduct was routed from small opening in front of the suspension to the rear wing to blow it.

I do remember that they had ducts behind the intake opening just like this year and that they were trying to use a passive system. I have no recall of any openings in front of the suspension. Do you have a photo graph illustrating this point?

Brian

[Owen.C93]

Merc's Fduct was routed from small opening in front of the suspension to the rear wing to blow it.

I do remember that they had ducts behind the intake opening just like this year and that they were trying to use a passive system. I have no recall of any openings in front of the suspension. Do you have a photo graph illustrating this point?

Brian

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/ ... 0/758.html

[hardingfv32]

You have pictures of the FW with mysterious slits in them as well as many small areas covered up. Just because we have no evidence with the system blue prints, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

The slits were mysterious because the images were photographical inconclusive.

Brian

[ringo]

i feel it's in the end plates.



passively working with the starter hole cowl and the opening under the intake.

The air is going to find the easiest way out though which wouldn't be in the end plates, This is why I think is why it makes more sense that when the DRS is open the air gets fed into the end plates and down to the bottom plane like the image I posted a few pages ago

There's no sense in sending it to the beam wing. The beam wing is not like the rear wing. Secondly regs dont allow any slotting of the beam wing, so stalling it becomes even more difficult.

The intent of the illustration is that the air is passing either in or out of the endplate, but it must also exit from the end plate. The rear wing is what is being stalled if anything. There is probably a jet shot out the end plate to trip the flow underneath the bottom of the main plane.

What i should have done is put the exits under the wing, low pressure side.

[hardingfv32]

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/ ... 0/758.html

I would claim that this article is factually incorrect. You are/were not allowed to modify the chassis once the season starts. Adding the scoop in this fashion would require a modified chassis which would be in violation of the rules.

The much talked about beauty of the McLaren F-Duct was that it uses a hole in the original chassis design. This precluded the simply copying of their system by other teams.

Brian

[siskue2005]

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/ ... 0/758.html

I would claim that this article is factually incorrect. You are/were not allowed to modify the chassis once the season starts. Adding the scoop in this fashion would require a modified chassis which would be in violation of the rules.

The much talked about beauty of the McLaren F-Duct was that it uses a hole in the original chassis design. This precluded the simply copying of their system by other teams.

Brian

oh! so now f1.com offical site is wrong ?

perhaps you didnt read it properly
Mercedes GP's F-Duct system, which was introduced in China, has received an upgrade in Turkey. It can now be activated by the driver's foot thanks to a bigger duct on the side of the chassis (blue arrow). This was previously much smaller and used to cool the drivers. The system of pipes used to direct the air to the rear wing is very complicated and they are all concealed by the engine cover, eventually reaching the wing's main profile through the side endplates.

[hardingfv32]

Secondly regs dont allow any slotting of the beam wing, so stalling it becomes even more difficult.

What regulation precludes any slot?

There is probably a jet shot out the end plate to trip the flow underneath the bottom of the main plane.

I like the idea of a jet if you are in fact precluded from using a slot.

Is the jet realistic? can you supply it with a flow great enough to actually extend very far out under the wing?

Brian

[hardingfv32]

oh! so now f1.com offical site is wrong ? :roll:

I am providing you with sound and factual statements of why the f1 site is wrong. Feel free to demonstrate how my statements are wrong.

1) I will have to search you early season photos to verify the existence of a hole on the side of the chassis.

2) Say they had a hole in the chassis from the start of the season. You know have a valid source of flow entering the interior of the chassis, what are you going to do to get the flow out of the chassis interior. Remember no new holes!

Brian

[aral]

oh! so now f1.com offical site is wrong ?

I am providing you with sound and factual statements of why the f1 site is wrong. Feel free to demonstrate how my statements are wrong.

1) I will have to search you early season photos to verify the existence of a hole on the side of the chassis.

2) Say they had a hole in the chassis from the start of the season. You know have a valid source of flow entering the interior of the chassis, what are you going to do to get the flow out of the chassis interior. Remember no new holes!

Brian

Why on earth are you raising 2010 issues here? All this is long past, and whatever you might like to believe, the Merc system was legal as it did not require modifications to the tub!
This is a thread on the W03.

[flickster]

I think this system is fully legal.

MGP "F-Duct" system is not operated by the driver, it is operated as a secondary function of the DRS wing opening. The driver is operating the DRS wing when he presses the button, not the F-duct, this is in contrast to the 2010 F-duct systems which were being directly activated by the drivers hand.

In summary the DRS wing is operating the F-duct as a secondary function, not the driver.

MGP DRS F-duct:
Driver > Button > DRS > F-Duct opening.
(1.Driver operates DRS button, 2.DRS Button activates DRS flap, 3.DRS flap exposes F-duct.)

You could argue this solution has zero driver involvement and purely works as a 100% passive system reacting to the change of air flow caused by the DRS flap opening. The function of the button pressed by the driver is to open the DRS not to activate the F-duct, that's a by-product just like a by-product of the driver pressing the accelerator pedal is an increase in downforce in most areas of the car due to the higher air flow generated by the increased speed of the car, does that mean now that the drivers can not press the accelerator?

[Joie de vivre]

agree

but on that note one would think that lotus's idea of suspension was also passive, was not?

[Owen.C93]

To be fair every other team managed to get air to exit their chassis.

[tsakonos]

Hello
I have a theory about RW F-Duct
1)The air go in tube underside the sideports

2)Then run under body

3)And go to the out hole
.
Good idea from clever people.
Have a nice race tomorrow.

[PlatinumZealot]

Just to sum up one possible hypothesis :

FW is in stall at high speed by default, so has blown section/slot fed by the nose hole to keep the flow attached.
(draggy at low speed I know, but bear with me)

RW endplate holes are an outlet for a duct from the front of the car joined to the nose -hole .

When DRS is open, the outlets are opened and the pressure in the nose drops , so it no longer blows the front wing.
The front wing now goes back into its default stalled mode as there is nothing blowing the slot to keep the flow attached.

Front DF and drag are shed when the rear wing is opened, airing both top speed and Aero balance under DRS activation....

....caveat: this requires that there is not higher pressure above the open rear wing than exists in the ducts to the RW endplates.

Makes sense if true.

The system should be very easy to copy I think. Just design and manufacturing time.