Mercedes AMG F1 W03

[elf341]

RRA was a bit more than a Gentleman's agreement, no?

Someone doesn't like a bit of competition.

This could get messy.

I imagine that Newey is starting to get nightmare flashbacks to the early 2000s when his cars were being routinely crushed by another team that had Brawn, Costa, and Schumacher in it.

[elf341]

Which has nothing to do with the F-Duct

IIRC, the ban on F-ducts was not instigated by FIA, but was in fact a FOTA initiative.

Given RBR abandoned FOTA, I think they're trying to have their cake and eat it, by invoking talk of gentlemanly agreement. Where was the gentlemanly conduct when they left FOTA? or the still remaining issue of allegations that RBR overspent massively in 2010 in violation of RRA?

[flickster]

I have a few questions that I hope someone can answer.

If Charlie Whiting, the FIA's own Technical Director has now for the second time after an even closer look at more information deemed the MGP DRS F-Duct solution to be legal, how can it go further?

So what happens if RBR protest, I would imagine the FIA technical stewards will take a closer look at the wing and give a ruling? However, would Charlie not already be in contact with these same stewards and would he not have egg on his face if they ruled against what their boss had for the second time publicly, only days earlier, deemed as legal?

Who are the FIA Technical Stewards and are they different at every race?

If Charlie is the technical director and his opinion is worthless why do the teams consult with him, why not consult directly with the technical stewards?

I would of thought Charlie would be in constant contact and maybe even seek the opinion of the other technical stewards on these kind of matters which makes me wonder what the point of a protest is... and yes I think it is rich of RBR to mention any kind of FOTA gentleman's agreement when they are no longer a part of FOTA - can't have one's cake and eat it too.

[Shakeman]

RRA was a bit more than a Gentleman's agreement, no?

Someone doesn't like a bit of competition.

This could get messy.

I imagine that Newey is starting to get nightmare flashbacks to the early 2000s when his cars were being routinely crushed by another team that had Brawn, Costa, and Schumacher in it.

We'll know he's under pressure when the RB becomes fragile like his McLarens were.

[TimmTurbo]

I have a few questions that I hope someone can answer.

If Charlie Whiting, the FIA's own Technical Director has now for the second time after an even closer look at more information deemed the MGP DRS F-Duct solution to be legal, how can it go further?

To issue/place an official Protest in front of the FIA Sportcourt in Paris.

[Huntresa]

Which has nothing to do with the F-Duct

IIRC, the ban on F-ducts was not instigated by FIA, but was in fact a FOTA initiative.

Given RBR abandoned FOTA, I think they're trying to have their cake and eat it, by invoking talk of gentlemanly agreement. Where was the gentlemanly conduct when they left FOTA? or the still remaining issue of allegations that RBR overspent massively in 2010 in violation of RRA?

I just said RRA has nothing to do with F-Duct nothing else.

[Ozan]

I would of thought Charlie would be in constant contact and maybe even seek the opinion of the other technical stewards on these kind of matters which makes me wonder what the point of a protest is... and yes I think it is rich of RBR to mention any kind of FOTA gentleman's agreement when they are no longer a part of FOTA - can't have one's cake and eat it too.

nothing more to say =D>

[Mr.S]

Mercedes lacks a clever exhaust system. They are clearly behind in that area and needs to exploit that potential! If not earlier we have to wait for Barcelona? Or will there be a new exhaust version even this weekend in Sepang?

Just 1 Week no time. They need to R&D new exhaust solutions with proper focus & see how much benefits it brings,how much modification is required in sidepods,turbing vanes,etc.

There's 3 Full Weeks till China & if Mercedes is serious about this year then they will debut a new modified exhaust solution. I dont think huge changes are required. Just make the path of flow to the area around the rear tyre or diffuser smoother.

If they cant get it done in 3 weeks after Malayasia I will be very dissapointed.

[Mr.S]

Brawn gave an interview to Formula1.com & says they will LOOK at these exhausts(other teams) within the next month or two. 2 Months to look at it. 6-7 races would be over after 2 months.

[munudeges]

The difficulty I have with this system, as with the original F-duct, is that it's quite a bit of work and ducting for really a fixed amount of time per lap, and a small one at that. Other teams might start developing their own systems, but the clever teams will leave it until later in the season when they've got as much downforce as they feel they can get out of their cars.

[Just_a_fan]

Yes, but if the system gives you 0.2s laptime, every lap, then it's well worth developing the system straight away. That could be the difference between Q2 and Q3 for example. And for circuits such as Spa, China and Monza the ability to carry a touch more d/f on the corners and lose it on the straights might mean more than a third of a second per lap advantage. No team can afford not to chase that sort of performance gain.

It's probably as easy to develop as finding the same amount of extra downforce required to give the same lap time benefit. And it also means that you use less fuel over the race distance than merely adding downforce would allow because you're carrying a lot less drag at high speed and high speed drag is a big issue for fuel use.

[David1976]

Yes, but if the system gives you 0.2s laptime, every lap, then it's well worth developing the system straight away. That could be the difference between Q2 and Q3 for example. And for circuits such as Spa, China and Monza the ability to carry a touch more d/f on the corners and lose it on the straights might mean more than a third of a second per lap advantage. No team can afford not to chase that sort of performance gain.

It's probably as easy to develop as finding the same amount of extra downforce required to give the same lap time benefit. And it also means that you use less fuel over the race distance than merely adding downforce would allow because you're carrying a lot less drag at high speed and high speed drag is a big issue for fuel use.

Good point. And I would not be surprised if the Mercedes system is easy in principal but difficult to tune to the same degree as Mercedes currently enjoy. I expect frantic development of this concept with variations ready in time for the official testing day in May.

[nacho]

Did anyone else notice that Mercs were quite early deactivating DRS, am I just imagining things?

[hardingfv32]

And I would not be surprised if the Mercedes system is easy in principal but difficult to tune to the same degree as Mercedes currently enjoy. I expect frantic development of this concept with variations ready in time for the official testing day in May.

You can not isolate the F-duct performance from the rest of this car's overall performance. It simply can not be demonstrated there it is of any benefit from this system. This car is at best in third place in the performance standings after all.

Brian

[hardingfv32]

I would of thought Charlie would be in constant contact and maybe even seek the opinion of the other technical stewards on these kind of matters which makes me wonder what the point of a protest is...

Whiting calls the shoots on rule interpretation. He takes a grey sentence and makes it black & white without actually changing the rule. Why is any steward going to rule on anything that is subject to interpretation without Whiting's guidance? He is at their disposal at every race. They also know he will control the outcome of the next level of rule administration. In this case, it is now pointless to protest.

I think the context of Lotus and RB's challenge is to understand if this system will be allowed next year or if it will be banned? Why bother with a questionable performance system if it will clearly be banned next season.

Brian